Author Topic: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted  (Read 14007 times)

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Offline Synchronated

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #15 on: 25 October 2013, 17:14:53 »
It's at least got great potential IMO considering the limitations of tablet controls, and codies aren't going to release anything/let anyone do a proper release of SWOS anyway.

Offline steviebwoy78

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #16 on: 07 October 2015, 10:32:00 »
Tiki Taka Soccer is actually a great game. I've got it on my Android phone and play it all the time, though apart from the graphical style it's not very comparable to Sensi. The controls are gesture-based, so a swipe will shoot, a tap on a player will pass it, and a tap on the ground to dribble. It works surprisingly well and is keeping me entertained in my few downtime moments (with an 18 month old baby boy, these aren't very often!).

I've no idea if this is the same project or not - I suspect it isn't which suggests to me that this one has fallen by the wayside, a shame as it looked quite promising to me.

Offline steviebwoy78

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #17 on: 07 October 2015, 14:13:19 »
Well, this shows how little I know! I've just had a delve around the DeviantArt page for the guy that submitted the screenshots, and he's posted some work for Tiki Taka Soccer on his page. Thus, it appears that this game eventually became Tiki Taka Soccer.

http://masakari666.deviantart.com/art/Tiki-Taka-Soccer-alpha-UI-UX-and-Game-graphics-509241689

Offline Galatapalace

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #18 on: 18 December 2017, 03:06:11 »
cheers

I was looking if any tries to remake of swos and then searching from google I saw these posts... Really excited the idea... 

Since I am not a programmer I can't contribute too much related with but I do help for database development, work for numbering player skills etc.  And of course can share ideas.. Plus, I know to use Corel Draw if it helps..

Licencing we should think about it. May be we can get a solution.. No need to be discouraged...

forward to getting responded...


Offline Masakari

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #19 on: 08 May 2018, 18:43:06 »
Well, here is a nice necro of this thread, no idea if anyone will still see this.

Regarding some questions posted here, my art was personal but the creator of what would become Tiki Taka Soccer (TTS) contacted me and I worked with him for a few months. However, my art ended up being used for early production only, he decided to change the art style to be less similar to SWOS and hired another artist to do it. No idea what ended up happening with TTS after release as I haven't talked with him for a few years now.

As far as Sensi goes, we're here 6 years later and I still can't understand how no one has done anything with Sensi, officially I mean. I googled "Sensible Soccer 2018" and I got a sports goods chain and a marketing and design agency, for example. I don't even know if Codemasters has let the "Sensible Soccer" trademark/copyright slide away.

Jon Hare himself decided to use a new name (Sociable Soccer), making me wonder if Sensible Soccer or SWOS is even usable anymore.

Because as great as the community effort for the 2016/2017 update was, I think it's high time we all got together and really did something with SWOS, similar to what the PES community does every year but even further. Or like what the Sonic 2 HD guys did that eventually was officially sanctioned by Sega and turned into Sonic Mania.

In my opinion, the only way to do SWOS justice would be to build on it's existing framework and expand on it. You can't "get it right" by eye-balling it like Sociable Soccer and many others have tried. The only way is like many Remasters and projects have done (Halo Anniversary, Sonic Mania, etc) and indeed the HD Xbox 360 SWOS did, build on top of the old game so the thing you want to preserve (the feel of the game) is intact.

Is this possible by the community? I don't know much about reverse-engineering, but could we take the existing SWOS and really go to town with it, not just updating stuff in the database?

I mean really take SWOS and rebuild it:
+ build a new modern UI
+ new HD sprites
+ unique stadiums from around the world
+ ball types
+ represent all the kits
+ many more variations of sprite looks
+ etc

Could we as a community get Codemasters to be ok with a fanbase / crowdsourced project? I don't see "X Soccer" or "Y Soccer" gaining traction, the only way to recapture the markets' attention would be to "be official" and be Sensi.
« Last Edit: 08 May 2018, 18:47:00 by Masakari »

Offline ElMichaJ

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #20 on: 09 May 2018, 12:55:17 »
well .. this is not easy to answer, but i try.

SWOS or Sensiblesoccer are currently out of focus of big companies. seems to be unretable for them.

next point is, that we have a big problem in the community itself.
there are maybe 10 or more clones of SWOS which look more or less quite similar.

every of them have nice features and are in early beta or sometimes selled professional.
each clone is coded only by one person, not a team or a company.
it looks like every coder of a clone wants to be the high priest of rebirth of swos.
additional they want to see their own new features in it.

like sociable soccer all these clones are NO SWOS  ... they are a copy ... not more ... quite uninteresting.

i have checked a lot of these clones and everyone has some really nice features ....

but still  .... what we need is:

- a team of coders (who not be paid until game will be maybe successful)
- graphics
- project management !!!!!!!!!
- specifications (we should really know what we want)

well thats all a lot of work and is has to be done in free time of people who work a lot and have families.


myself is considering to rise such a project in some years, but currently i am learning java and project management tools to be prepared..... and still a problem will be a smooth team communication and maybe that coders can change...

currently it looks we have a lot of coders .... but still they want to build a new SWOS alone.
hey hey hey .... ElMichaJ



Offline Masakari

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #21 on: 09 May 2018, 15:09:37 »
Hi ElMichaJ, thanks for the reply.

SWOS / Sensi is "dead" to big companies. We will never see anything out of them unless someone smaller buys the license from Codemasters or licenses the brand from them to also have access to the source code. In fact, does anyone know why Jon Hare didn't license the IP from Codies and decided to do Sociable?

I know and 100% agree with what you mean about all the clones running around. Hence why I think the only course of action is coming together as a community and do something about it, the only option is doing SWOS, no "approximation" will be good enough.

I'm not a programmer and could only handle art and engine integration, so I don't even know how feasible some things I asked are.

Since we don't have the source code for SWOS but the game absolutely needs to be using the old coding underneath the hood, is SWOS reverse-engineerable? Or re-writable? Something that would enable the creation of a "vertical slice" of the game, in other words a small demo showing what the final product would look like.

People being unpaid all the way wouldn't necessarily be true, it would depend what the business plan for development is, for example:

A) Do you build a prototype reverse-engineered from SWOS 96/97 and present it to Codemasters, and get their consent for a Kickstarter or Indiegogo or attempts at private funding?

B) Or do you try to crowdfund a licensing fee with Codemasters, get the source, develop a vertical slice, and then crowdfund again to get the additional funding required to complete the game?

Another issue entirely is that this would ideally be supported by Jon Hare or have his involvement. However, with him doing Sociable not only do I doubt he wants to get involved, we would be active competition for his current project, and we would be advancing SWOS without any of the original team involved.

I've seen the Pro Evo community organize each year to transform the game; I've seen the Sonic community rally and finally do the great 2d Sonic game that Sega failed to do for 2 decades; Japanese RPG fans do complete fan translations who are then picked up by the original devs; Even small 3 person teams still doing Sega Dreamcast games! While those communities are bigger, there is clear passion here as we are 20 years later still around, on this forum, with a yearly "convention" in Sensible Days, with a kitbashed multiplayer online component. It really makes me wonder why no one has (afaik) organized something by now.
« Last Edit: 09 May 2018, 15:12:08 by Masakari »

Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #22 on: 09 May 2018, 22:06:27 »
In my opinion, the only way to do SWOS justice would be to build on it's existing framework and expand on it. You can't "get it right" by eye-balling it like Sociable Soccer and many others have tried. The only way is like many Remasters and projects have done (Halo Anniversary, Sonic Mania, etc) and indeed the HD Xbox 360 SWOS did, build on top of the old game so the thing you want to preserve (the feel of the game) is intact.

Is this possible by the community? I don't know much about reverse-engineering, but could we take the existing SWOS and really go to town with it, not just updating stuff in the database?

I mean really take SWOS and rebuild it:
+ build a new modern UI
+ new HD sprites
+ unique stadiums from around the world
+ ball types
+ represent all the kits
+ many more variations of sprite looks
+ etc

Could we as a community get Codemasters to be ok with a fanbase / crowdsourced project? I don't see "X Soccer" or "Y Soccer" gaining traction, the only way to recapture the markets' attention would be to "be official" and be Sensi.

I totally agree.

Some things have already been done.

@Masakari: Did you check out latest PC DOS version, with ++ extension? Adding multiplayer to the original game among other features has already been done...

Great input btw, thanks!

SWOS / Sensi is "dead" to big companies. We will never see anything out of them unless someone smaller buys the license from Codemasters or licenses the brand from them to also have access to the source code. In fact, does anyone know why Jon Hare didn't license the IP from Codies and decided to do Sociable?

Read more here:
http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=26041.msg130361#msg130361
« Last Edit: 09 May 2018, 22:51:53 by Playaveli »

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Offline Masakari

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #23 on: 10 May 2018, 00:28:29 »

I totally agree.

Some things have already been done.

@Masakari: Did you check out latest PC DOS version, with ++ extension? Adding multiplayer to the original game among other features has already been done...

Great input btw, thanks!

Read more here:
http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=26041.msg130361#msg130361
Hi Playaveli,

Yes, I know online has been added, as well as the 16/17 community update. But you still have everything else outdated and not feasible for a relaunch of the franchise. It needs to be a modern game with the match engine of Sensi inside it to preserve the feel of the game / physics.

Putting aside the legalities, IMO the only way to revamp and relaunch SWOS would be to use the match engine and throw out everything else; Rebuild the entire game from UI to game modes and graphics. Essentially a new game with the SWOS physics / gameplay.

I read the thread you linked to yesterday, and specifically your post. But it doesn't answer why Jon ended up asking for 300k on Kickstarter when "supposedly" the costs would be more around 100-150k, or why he preferred to use a new IP (Sociable) instead of paying 30k to Codemasters to get the SWOS name.

So I end up with the same question: could we, as a community, somehow unite under 1 dev team, raise 30k to get the license, do a small proof of concept, and then run a crowdfunding campaign to get the rest of the game done? Because if not, Sensi is done for except in this forum.

EDIT: so I went and read the 597 comments on the Sociable KS page and Jon replies he thought SWOS was "perfect for its time" and decided against licensing the game because he specifically wanted to build something new, for the future.

« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 00:36:13 by Masakari »

Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #24 on: 10 May 2018, 00:59:23 »

I read the thread you linked to yesterday, and specifically your post. But it doesn't answer why Jon ended up asking for 300k on Kickstarter when "supposedly" the costs would be more around 100-150k, or why he preferred to use a new IP (Sociable) instead of paying 30k to Codemasters to get the SWOS name.

They put it on 300k so it would be out of reach. They just wanted to see or rather check interest of people / the market.


Yes, I know online has been added, as well as the 16/17 community update. But you still have everything else outdated and not feasible for a relaunch of the franchise. It needs to be a modern game with the match engine of Sensi inside it to preserve the feel of the game / physics.

Putting aside the legalities, IMO the only way to revamp and relaunch SWOS would be to use the match engine and throw out everything else; Rebuild the entire game from UI to game modes and graphics. Essentially a new game with the SWOS physics / gameplay.

...

So I end up with the same question: could we, as a community, somehow unite under 1 dev team, raise 30k to get the license, do a small proof of concept, and then run a crowdfunding campaign to get the rest of the game done? Because if not, Sensi is done for except in this forum.

Correct! And an interesting question!

In other words:
- SWOS on 32/64bit systems (Win / Mac)
- USB joystick support
- online multiplayer (all game modes: Friendly / DIY / Career)
- Adjustable league structure

(- graphics and sounds are a child's play anyway, then)
(- if we find time, some more ideas: http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=1077.msg14525#msg14525 )


---

EDIT:

If there is anyone around here with a modded XBOX 360... please get the core SWOS files from the XBLA version off it and upload them somewhere within a zip file!!! That would be a great help.
« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 01:10:56 by Playaveli »

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Offline Masakari

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #25 on: 10 May 2018, 01:48:42 »
They put it on 300k so it would be out of reach. They just wanted to see or rather check interest of people / the market.
Huh? Interesting... I would think a "failed" KS would do more PR damage than it's worth.

Correct! And an interesting question!

In other words:
- SWOS on 32/64bit systems (Win / Mac)
- USB joystick support
- online multiplayer (all game modes: Friendly / DIY / Career)
- Adjustable league structure

(- graphics and sounds are a child's play anyway, then)
(- if we find time, some more ideas: http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=1077.msg14525#msg14525 )

EDIT:
If there is anyone around here with a modded XBOX 360... please get the core SWOS files from the XBLA version off it and upload them somewhere within a zip file!!! That would be a great help.
Ideally, since everything else is built from scratch except the match engine, we could have the game modes we want to make and all sorts of league and cup competitions, and basically not be bound by stuff like 20-season limits and transfer limits and whatnot. None of that would matter.

USB gamepad support is a must, I know how some of you feel about Sensi and console gamepads but for the modern gamer it needs to be a lock, I don't even know anyone using a joystick anymore. Unless what you meant by USB joystick is everything including gamepads, in that case nevermind.

You don't need a modded Xbox 360, I've had the SWOS XBLA files on my PC. All you need is to copy the game to a flash drive on the console, and then read the drive on your PC. I'll take my 360 out of storage tomorrow to do it.

I'm checking that link you posted for a SWOS remake wishlist.
« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 01:54:36 by Masakari »

Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #26 on: 10 May 2018, 02:04:07 »
Yea, what I meant was just USB device support (USB adapter for old school controllers and of course modern ones).

Really? You got the XBLA SWOS core files? My god... get them out here!

About the career limits and such, check this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sRRWzGuXS_DevyFj-NyEsXyciAnTFfesmKvZQVIF6IM/edit?usp=sharing

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Offline Masakari

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #27 on: 10 May 2018, 10:45:26 »
Yea, what I meant was just USB device support (USB adapter for old school controllers and of course modern ones).

Really? You got the XBLA SWOS core files? My god... get them out here!

About the career limits and such, check this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sRRWzGuXS_DevyFj-NyEsXyciAnTFfesmKvZQVIF6IM/edit?usp=sharing
Here it is, unpacked XBLA SWOS: https://mega.nz/#!3npiUYLC!o31OztpASM91C4w0qFqZ4HDeMT7VNJeIk6zU09MVceU

Offline petarku

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #28 on: 10 May 2018, 11:31:28 »
hi guys , as i am big into xbla version and playing it almost every day offline i also have unpacked default.xex file that i modded for my xbox (changed yugoslavia to serbia, updated initial tactics to use mozg tactics etc .) I didnt think there is any interest on xbla version here so didnt post anything but can upload patched xex if any interest.

On the swos revival , as i was writing on the other thread , i was interested in the feasibility of it , i feel the same about the game like all of you here , it would be the pity not to try one more push to get development on it. When i see community on this site i think there is energy to make something out of it..

Offline petarku

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Re: SWOS remake art & opinions wanted
« Reply #29 on: 10 May 2018, 11:40:32 »
here is the unpacked and edited default.xex file

https://file.io/eDxUsm