Author Topic: Building own keypad  (Read 810 times)

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Offline gatifun

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Building own keypad
« on: 08 August 2017, 01:16:25 »
Hey mates, Anyone knows how to make a keypad able to play with Amiga, I mean, like the ones you use at Sensible Days?.

Playaveli told me aboud make a keypad from an Amiga Joy, but I need some info about making it. Can anyone help me? Thanks very much

to build this:
« Last Edit: 08 August 2017, 14:25:40 by gatifun »

Offline djowger

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #1 on: 08 August 2017, 15:37:35 »
Yes, sure the community wants to help. If you are on facebook I have some info here: https://www.facebook.com/pg/djowger/photos/?tab=album&album_id=843547659023106
This is a very basic way of creating it, and can be done a lot smarter, but that also requires more work.

Basically u need some mechanical keys. Most popular on the market is the Cherry MX keys used on all modern gamer keyboards. But you can save a lot of money by buying an old Cherry keyboard from ebay or such. The next thing you need is either an extension cable or an old controller, it only matters which one you choose if you need a seconday fire button. Then you should go for extension cables. Third thing you need is a soldering device.

Here is a basic way of making it.



You will notice that the "ground" cable is connected to each key. This is important or it will not work. The colors of the cables differ from joystick to joystick and extension cable. So it is trial and error. Usually Fire button is orange, Ground cable is black, and secondary fire is red. The others change. On the image white is up, blue down, green right and brown is left. But like I said it changes.

FC Sandkagen and Egebjerg Luxus are creating some keypads atm. where you can use all keys. But I only saw a work in progress of their work as it is not finished yet.

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2017, 16:57:16 »
Thanks Djowger, always so kind!

Then, I can use the cable from an Amiga Gamepad, join them in a similar way as the picture to the Cherry MX Keys and it probably will work?

Offline Emmeti

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2017, 18:33:15 »
@Gatifun
Not really much to add, Djowger is the expert.
Anyway... From your words is not clear if your trying to build an amiga keypad or a gameport one (I know you have a pc gravis gamepad), so in case you want to use that cable ok, just cut the connector and the other end that connects to the gamepad board and buy a db 9 female connector to solder to one of those ends. That way you could also know in advance what key do what.
If you want to build a gameport keypad (then to use with gameport to usb and gameport to amiga) check the gameport pinout (and in that case, obviously don't cut the connector :D)



I asked a friend to build one for me as favor, because I didn't have the time nor the tools.
The board was the problem, I haven't any old cherry keyboard.
In the end we found some sort of solution, but this way our base/board sits on the bottom of the keypad and keys are not perfectly in line; no big deal, but still noticeable if you look at the keypad from the side.
I had a couple of solutions in mind, but I couldn't ask him to do too much (being a favor) and kept that way.
Barely noticeable in my opinion (not an expert thou), but I guess that (and probably a couple of other reasons) makes them not as good as other keypads around.


Edit: attached a couple of pics (amiga keypad, usb keypad)

« Last Edit: 09 August 2017, 14:42:33 by Emmeti »

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2017, 20:41:40 »
Thanks Emmeti too. Yes, I didn't really know about it, I thought the gravis gamepad was an amiga gamepad!

I will think about it and tell you. Thanks!

Offline Emmeti

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #5 on: 09 August 2017, 13:42:39 »
I thought the gravis gamepad was an amiga gamepad!

Well, actually there's also an amiga version: it has a 9 pin connector instead of the gameport 15 pin one and 'gamepad' on the case instead of "pc gamepad".
It's just that I know you have the pc one :)

Edit: attached pic of 2 gravis (pc gameport with black connector and amiga)

« Last Edit: 09 August 2017, 14:46:24 by Emmeti »

Offline Playaveli

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #6 on: 11 August 2017, 13:25:46 »
If you don't want to kill some old Amiga joystick and sacrifice it, maybe this is helpful:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/6FT-9-Pin-Replacement-cable-cord-wire-to-repair-Amiga-system-controller-Joystick-/172743822341

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Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #7 on: 14 August 2017, 00:43:23 »
Thanks Playaveli, I will plan how to do it when I receive the key switches . Thanks for helping!

Offline djowger

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #8 on: 15 August 2017, 14:57:49 »
Killing the gravis gamepads would be a shame imo ;) But it is your choice. Get a few extension cables instead. They are cheap.

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #9 on: 24 August 2017, 15:16:20 »
Hello again, I've received the switches and keycaps. Now, I'm planning the cable stuff.

I've seen this items to buy. Do you think it will work with Amiga (to play in sensidays) and in PC with the adapter? thanks


Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #10 on: 25 August 2017, 17:31:19 »
My first own keypad, amiga one.  Thanks Playaveli, Djowger and Emmeti for helping.

Cable : https://www.amazon.es/dp/B01MXYZ8QO/ref=pe_3310721_189395781_TE_dp_1

Adapdor: https://www.amazon.es/dp/B00QRZ1HVS/ref=pe_3310721_189395781_TE_dp_2

Keycaps: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Keyboarded-blank-pbt-keycapss-keyboarded-thickening-mechanical-keyboard-keyboarded-r1-r2-r3-r4-keyboarded-oem-height/32781789177.html

Switches: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cherry-cherry-shaft-shaft-mx-mechanical-keyboard-shaft-switch-black-shaft-tea-shaft-white-shaft-green/32682571027.html

Ok, before the pictures.
BLUE - CONNECTED TO EVERY SWITCH EXCEPT BUTTON
ORANGE - RIGHT
BLACK - DOWN
GREY - LEFT
RED - UP
GREEN AND WHITE FOR BUTTON

FUNNIEST THING:
with the last settings, it doesn't work. DIRECTION KEYS move POV but not XY axes.
Then, I put another switch with yelow and blue. Then, i pressed this button + shoot + press repeated (10 times) one direction. Then, it starts to work.


« Last Edit: 25 August 2017, 19:27:28 by gatifun »

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #11 on: 26 August 2017, 10:35:52 »
FEELINGS:

- the new controller works as a joystick, then, several things change:

- in keyboard, you can press the opposite direction before unpressing the previous one, then you have more and faster dribbling and aftertouch effect. Now, there are several effects very difficult to apply and never with all the power than before
- Now, if I press one opposite direction that I'm moving, the controller moves the mov to the center of the joy, then the player stops and I lose the ball
- changing directions of movement is very easier with keyboard. Now I have to pass for every "corner" of the simulate joystick and at the moment I can't do it as fast as with keyboard

- nevertheless, these switches are very confortable and fast
- to play in sensidays it is better to play with the same controler always



Does anyone have any idea o thought to share with me about this ? thanks
« Last Edit: 26 August 2017, 10:49:14 by gatifun »

Offline djowger

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #12 on: 26 August 2017, 12:56:00 »
Does anyone have any idea o thought to share with me about this ? thanks

Good job on the keypad Gati! Interesting layout :)

The general feel of controllers was already discussed many times. There are no perfect controller, but surely there are some controllers that fit your style of play better. There are advantages in a way for some controllers in certain situations.

Check out one of the discussions here: http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0

Personal experience controller wise:
When I started to play sensible soccer I was a joystick player using WICO Command. Then when i started playing PC SWOS 96/97 i bought a few logitech (flightstick style) joysticks. I broke 3 of them and thought f*** it Ill just use keys to save money. I used this pretty much up untill i came to play on a real Amiga 1200 only to realize i couldn't use the keyboard on the amiga. So started playing on joysticks again untill I built the keypads and played on this for a long time. Later I bought a lot of different types of controllers on ebay, mostly to use for offline tournaments. So I playtested many controllers in my time.

My favorites today are Keys and the Arcade joystick by Suzo. I feel like I can do almost the same stuff on either, but I feel like Im faster from side to side on keys and more precise, but faster allround on the joystick. Like mentioned in the discussion there is no perfect controllers.

About keys in general, remember there are different types of mechanical keys mostly having various tactile feel. And there are also different types of keycaps. Test them out so you can find your preferred ones.

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #13 on: 28 August 2017, 10:38:35 »
the second one.

I've use a wooden for the board, but the rest is provisional yet.

Despite there are some key combinations that I can't do with this key-joy-pad as I did on KB-pc, I found I can train to solve it .

Furthemore, red keys have  the soft and fast movement that I wish, but i need to make them less high. I mean, to reduce the distance. They already work at the middle of the pressing, then, I've tried to put some pieces of wooden or metal to reduce the distance. I have'nt find the final piece for that, but reducing distance of press it works very easier as I'm used with my KB-pc.

Thanks!

PDATA/ I've made some changes on my wire scheme, basically seeing Djowger pictures, but if anyone likes to know more, contact me pls
« Last Edit: 28 August 2017, 14:17:34 by gatifun »

Offline gatifun

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Re: Building own keypad
« Reply #14 on: 25 September 2017, 20:05:26 »
And 3rd version:

- brown cherry switches
- a rubber ring inside to make shorter every press
- stainless steel board

« Last Edit: 25 September 2017, 20:12:12 by gatifun »