Author Topic: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!  (Read 14348 times)

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Offline Coolio_Jack

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #15 on: 13 November 2015, 13:22:39 »
I really can't imagine why would anyone who plays swos be interested in playing something like this while swos is still there. Also, not like it would make it worth playing, but they should get rid of that effect that ball leaves.

I guess for people who like gaming in general this might be interesting, but it's nothing that should be exciting and worth of discussing here. Unless one day someone can take over the old gameplay source code, they should stop mentioning swos in any kind of sense, even as a "spiritual successor" or whatever.

Offline Playaveli

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #16 on: 13 November 2015, 13:26:31 »
It's not possible to simply port the Amiga source code to a new platform and get the same results.

That's just not true. XBLA SWOS is a straight port of Amiga SWOS with PC frame rate, working 100% accurate on modern platform (Xbox).
Enhanced graphic mode is very nice (except some unfinished goal shadows), you can even zoom the pitch without a change in camera angle.
For a good developer / coder it would be a child's play to add some new features to the game from that point on (atmospheric sound, commentary, new game options etc).

But since we don't have that, well... let's hope Jon's new approach goes well.
And Jon is on the right track on a lot of things, like focussing first on gameplay and a fast working multiplayer mode.


@Lemon: Well said! I agree with you, totally!

« Last Edit: 13 November 2015, 13:30:41 by Playaveli »

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Offline steviebwoy78

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #17 on: 13 November 2015, 13:44:32 »
I think the problem is that we've no chance of anyone getting hold of the source code for SWOS. It's also pretty obvious that Codemasters aren't going to do anything with the game. It's super frustrating.

With that in mind, I guess Jon's only option is to try and recreate the game (or something that recaptures the magic). I dislike the talk of clans and avatars, but that's just me.

I wish him well with this project, keeping it mind that this is potentially just the first installment. We can't expect to have the depth of SWOS at this point.

Just get the game running well, make it fun online and offline, and then build from there. I don't see the need for all this clan and avatar stuff but it seems to be quite important to Jon.

I have my doubts about whether Jon can capture the old magic with a new team, but I'm hopeful and very much prepared to wait and see.

I've backed the project, and would encourage the whole community to do the same - not necessarily solely based on what we've seen on the Kickstarter page, but based on what this series could become in the future.

Offline higgipoker

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #18 on: 13 November 2015, 14:12:10 »
That's just not true. XBLA SWOS is a straight port of Amiga SWOS with PC frame rate...

Interesting! Do you know for a fact that it is a straight port of the Amiga code? People complain that the PC version, for example,  didn't have the same feeling to the ball physics, did the XBOX version fix this problem?

I would be very surprised if they converted the 68020 asm straight to the Xenon. The issue is not the frame rate, it's the frame based processing. To get the same feeling across different platforms and environments you would have to convert to a time based game loop. This is not trivial. It affects not only the smoothness of the graphics, but also the physics and controls of the game due to the variable time steps. A lot of hardware specific tricks and optimizations were utilized in most Amiga games to squeeze the most out of each frame.

It is possible, of course, that the original Amiga game was implemented with a time based game loop, though I highly doubt it.

Anyway, would be interested in the info you have regarding this!

Cheers.
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Offline Playaveli

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #19 on: 13 November 2015, 15:05:39 »
That's just not true. XBLA SWOS is a straight port of Amiga SWOS with PC frame rate...

Interesting! Do you know for a fact that it is a straight port of the Amiga code? People complain that the PC version, for example,  didn't have the same feeling to the ball physics, did the XBOX version fix this problem?

I would be very surprised if they converted the 68020 asm straight to the Xenon. The issue is not the frame rate, it's the frame based processing. To get the same feeling across different platforms and environments you would have to convert to a time based game loop. This is not trivial. It affects not only the smoothness of the graphics, but also the physics and controls of the game due to the variable time steps. A lot of hardware specific tricks and optimizations were utilized in most Amiga games to squeeze the most out of each frame.

It is possible, of course, that the original Amiga game was implemented with a time based game loop, though I highly doubt it.

Anyway, would be interested in the info you have regarding this!

Cheers.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sensible-world-of-soccer-96-97-first-impressions?page=2

Quote
Eurogamer: Did the recent Xbox/PS2 version influence what you left in/added to the original, core game?

Jon Hare: No not at all; this is a straight port, probably what we should have done in the first place.


XBLA has the exact Amiga physic feeling! It just looks smoother (60z), just as the PC version of SWOS does.
And the goalkeepers are sort of a PC/Amiga mix.
« Last Edit: 13 November 2015, 15:09:44 by Playaveli »

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Offline higgipoker

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #20 on: 13 November 2015, 15:53:13 »
XBLA has the exact Amiga physic feeling! It just looks smoother (60z), just as the PC version of SWOS does.
And the goalkeepers are sort of a PC/Amiga mix.

That's cool, the developers deserve a lot of credit for getting the Amiga feel on the xbox! So, all we need is for someone to leak the xbox code! :)
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Offline barnettgs

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #21 on: 13 November 2015, 16:45:55 »
Well, it seems I may be wrong about CPU/GPU if they have managed to do the Xbox 360 version just as good as the Amiga version although Jon said it is a faithful port.  Also my error regarding the bug fixes were actually for Sensible Soccer 2006, not the xbox version!

What I was trying to say that newer retro games are taking advantages of using the modern features as well as modern online play. I was reading Dino's interview about his Kick-off and he said that he is doing it in 3D because "it is actually easier to make games like that on these days" and then he would put the camera a classic top-down approch as if it was the original. For new Kick-off game would have a full analogue control, unlike 8-directions. 

Does the Xbox 360 version has a full analogue control?  Just curious to know.

I hope Sociable Soccer will have full analogue control as it will make passing with more precision and control, therefore the gameplay gets more varied and skilled.

But there you are, Jon finally got the chance to do what he was trying to do for years.
« Last Edit: 13 November 2015, 21:56:46 by barnettgs »

Offline Playaveli

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Offline Playaveli

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #23 on: 13 November 2015, 21:31:04 »
*new board created / topic moved*

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Offline Retrieving

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #24 on: 14 November 2015, 02:04:51 »
Quote

360 degree stick, 8 directional D-pad and keyboard controls
Single button, dual button and full pad control schemes

Controls

As many of you will recall, Sensible Soccer used just a single button to control passing, shooting and tackling in a very elegant, intuitive way. This accessible and quick-to-learn control method will be available in Sociable Soccer, and for players more versed in modern football games, we’ll also be featuring a varied range of more complex control methods, splitting actions across the entire controller and allowing nuanced control over your team.

This has me worried to be honest.

I wonder, how are they going to balance out the fact that some people will be playing with classic controls (and will thus be limited to 8 directions and, supposedly, a sort of context-sensitive action-button) as opposed to the 360° multi-button approach of modern games, like, is it going to feel like Manual/Auto controls on FIFA? How isn't this going to end up favoring a certain control scheme over the other during multiplayer matches?

Seems like one helluva headache to balance.

Offline higgipoker

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #25 on: 14 November 2015, 07:28:06 »
Quote

360 degree stick, 8 directional D-pad and keyboard controls
Single button, dual button and full pad control schemes

Controls

As many of you will recall, Sensible Soccer used just a single button to control passing, shooting and tackling in a very elegant, intuitive way. This accessible and quick-to-learn control method will be available in Sociable Soccer, and for players more versed in modern football games, we’ll also be featuring a varied range of more complex control methods, splitting actions across the entire controller and allowing nuanced control over your team.

This has me worried to be honest.

I wonder, how are they going to balance out the fact that some people will be playing with classic controls (and will thus be limited to 8 directions and, supposedly, a sort of context-sensitive action-button) as opposed to the 360° multi-button approach of modern games, like, is it going to feel like Manual/Auto controls on FIFA? How isn't this going to end up favoring a certain control scheme over the other during multiplayer matches?

Seems like one helluva headache to balance.

Agreed. A similar thing happened with EA's Fight Night. Their brilliant new analog punching system made it a game of real skill, and impossible to button mash... you had to actually gesture with the stick to pull off different punches... but they also allowed you to use an old style scheme with each punch just mapped to a button! This made it a completely different game and the innovative control scheme was USELESS online against someone button mashing.

Again, I want to say that Hare has earned our support, but this just smells of indecision and lazy design at the moment.
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Offline HairFU

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #26 on: 15 November 2015, 22:50:09 »
It does not look like Sociable Soccer will reach it's goal of 300.000 £. "Only" 24.000 £ since 4 days. That seems not that much if you wana have that much money. I think it`s because Sensible Soccer and SWOS was only a big number in europe, but they nearly miss out completly the north american continent as I think footbal games are not really succesfull there.

Offline xflea

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #27 on: 16 November 2015, 00:01:42 »
that ain't no swos football game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR6MN2jKYs

:P

Offline higgipoker

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #28 on: 16 November 2015, 08:08:32 »
It does not look like Sociable Soccer will reach it's goal of 300.000 £. "Only" 24.000 £ since 4 days. That seems not that much if you wana have that much money. I think it`s because Sensible Soccer and SWOS was only a big number in europe, but they nearly miss out completly the north american continent as I think footbal games are not really succesfull there.

I said the day it started that he's overestimated the fan base and would be lucky to hit 50k. SWOS is practically unknown in the USA. And it's not even as popular as people think it is in Europe.

Ron Gilbert is a worldwide gaming institution with a string of genuine game changing (pardon the pun) titles to his name and he only targeted about 300k. Sorry to say Hare is not even in the same league.

Again, just to clarify, Hare has earned OUR support by giving us SWOS, our favourite game of all time and I'm fully behind him and his new project. Just being realistic.
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Offline steviebwoy78

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Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #29 on: 16 November 2015, 10:47:31 »
I said the day it started that he's overestimated the fan base and would be lucky to hit 50k. SWOS is practically unknown in the USA. And it's not even as popular as people think it is in Europe.

Ron Gilbert is a worldwide gaming institution with a string of genuine game changing (pardon the pun) titles to his name and he only targeted about 300k. Sorry to say Hare is not even in the same league.

Again, just to clarify, Hare has earned OUR support by giving us SWOS, our favourite game of all time and I'm fully behind him and his new project. Just being realistic.
To be fair, it doesn't take a genius to work out that £300k is a pretty unrealistic target. That said, I think you underestimate the power of nostalgia. If Jon had just come out and said "We're updating Sensible Soccer for 2015" I think people would've signed up in their thousands. Give it retro graphics, retro gameplay and the retro Sensi vibe but give it online and local multiplayer and that's all you need.

But sadly, Jon didn't do that. He called it Sociable Soccer.. even I cringed when I first heard it. It just sounds like a Facebook game. There's far too much talk of avatars and clans on the KS page. Jon has since rectified this, but I can't help but feel like he's lost a massive chunk of investment right at the very start of the campaign. I'd be sorry to see how many pages hits he failed to convert into backers as I suspect it's a heck of a lot.

I visited a friend of mine this weekend who said that he'd heard about the campaign (he's a pretty casual gamer), but looked at the KS page and assumed it was just some kind of online-only game. He said he looked at the page for a minute or so while the video was playing and then closed the tab when he heard avatars and clans. I think that's the problem Jon has in calling the game Sociable Soccer and giving it such an "social network" feel.

OG SWOS didn't have online, it was a single player (or 2 player) game, so to give it such a multiplayer/online focus is a really dodgy move, given that most of the target audience don't give a monkeys about it. Yes, Jon has corrected this now, but I think he's missed out on stacks of cash purely based of the misconstrued focus.
« Last Edit: 16 November 2015, 10:50:33 by steviebwoy78 »