Author Topic: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!  (Read 15212 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #30 on: 16 November 2015, 11:55:22 »

There's far too much talk of avatars and clans on the KS page. Jon has since rectified this, but I can't help but feel like he's lost a massive chunk of investment right at the very start of the campaign...

Agree with most of what you said, but Hare has only "lost" this investment by being honest. I think you are right in assuming that this is going to be more like a facebook game than the SWOS we love. Had he fooled people into thinking the game was an updated SWOS to get backers, then turned round and revealed "sociable soccer" in all it's glory, people would have been pissed. And it would have been a really shitty thing to do.

I think we should emphasize - this is an ENTIRELY new game and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Sensible Soccer. Nothing. No more than any of the other boatload of "retro style" footy games that  have used the name to drum up interest.

It is very loosely related in that Hare's ideas went into SWOS and Hare's ideas are going into this new game. So there is a reasonable expectation that if you loved his ideas in SWOS, you'll like the new ideas he has. In that respect, he is more than justified in invoking the Sensi name, no problems.

Again I'm  not trying to be negative - I encourage everybody to support him. I'm just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it's a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases. The landscape has changed, for a niche game like this, the only way it is going to turn a profit is by its core fans continually forking over money for updates and services. It's never going to sell enough outright to make it worthwhile.
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline steviebwoy78

  • PRO
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #31 on: 16 November 2015, 14:04:36 »
Agree with most of what you said, but Hare has only "lost" this investment by being honest. I think you are right in assuming that this is going to be more like a facebook game than the SWOS we love. Had he fooled people into thinking the game was an updated SWOS to get backers, then turned round and revealed "sociable soccer" in all it's glory, people would have been pissed. And it would have been a really shitty thing to do.

I think we should emphasize - this is an ENTIRELY new game and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Sensible Soccer. Nothing. No more than any of the other boatload of "retro style" footy games that  have used the name to drum up interest.

It is very loosely related in that Hare's ideas went into SWOS and Hare's ideas are going into this new game. So there is a reasonable expectation that if you loved his ideas in SWOS, you'll like the new ideas he has. In that respect, he is more than justified in invoking the Sensi name, no problems.

Again I'm  not trying to be negative - I encourage everybody to support him. I'm just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it's a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases. The landscape has changed, for a niche game like this, the only way it is going to turn a profit is by its core fans continually forking over money for updates and services. It's never going to sell enough outright to make it worthwhile.

Wooooahhhh there cowboy! Jon has not mentioned anything about subscriptions or in-app purchases being a part of Sociable Soccer. I don't get that from the KS page at all, so I think it's a tiny bit dangerous to imply that might be happening here.

I think Jon is selling the game "as is". Yes, there may be updates but I don't get the impression either from KS or the Eurogamer interview, that any of it is paid for after the initial outlay.

As long as the game supports a solid single-player/ local multiplayer experience in addition to the online fanciness, then I'm fully behind Sociable Soccer. At this moment in time, this sounds exactly what Jon is aiming for.
« Last Edit: 16 November 2015, 14:06:13 by steviebwoy78 »

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #32 on: 16 November 2015, 14:29:54 »
I think it's a fair comment. It's the impression that I get from the announcement vid and accompanying materials/comments (some of the incentives, for example, imply that certain avatar/team development aspects are of value). Of course it's only my opinion thus far, we're not going to go down the route of adding "just my opinion" to the end of each sentence, are we? ;)

If you re-read my comment about the purchases aspect in context, the point was "what if" we get excited about expectation X but the game turns out to be Y. I described a WORST case scenario. Reductio ad-absurdum if you will...not implying that I know it's gonna have in-app purchases. it might not be quite as extreme as that, but I'm willing to bet it'll be closer to that than it will to classic SWOS. It's going to be a socially based game, focusing on the online aspect of clans/avatars/leaderboards etc. To me, it seems that *that* is more of what Jon is aiming for at this point in time.

I fully stand by my final paragraph regarding the business aspect of such a game. Unless the Kickstarter gets a viral shot in the arm from reddit or a major TV news network and manages to fund the game 100%, a budget indie game with limited exposure is just not going to make any money. It's just that impulse buys of in-app purchases has been proven to be such a successful model in todays market, it would almost be stupid not to do it. And once you do that, people need an incentive to make those purchases - i.e. limitations in the "shipped" game.

And just to reiterate... I'm fully behind Sociable Soccer too, no matter how it turns out!

Anyway,  fun and interesting to discuss. Maybe the next update will make me eat my words... which I'll be more than happy to do! :)
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline steviebwoy78

  • PRO
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #33 on: 16 November 2015, 14:55:39 »
I just think to make a statement like "I'm just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it's a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases", is a dangerous one to make, particularly when there's absolutely no evidence to suggest it will be. I don't think there's any value in discussing IAPs and subscription models for this game, when nothing (and I mean, absolutely nothing) has been mentioned by Jon to indicate that it's in his thoughts.

For what it's worth, I think Jon is really going to struggle to hit his target from here. I would've thought he needed to hit at least £50k-100k in the opening 24-48hrs to make it all the way to £300k. It makes me wonder, in part, whether this has been carefully orchestrated to either drum up support for the game when it's released, or whether he's out there trying to find a publisher based off the KS (I hope not, given the current total).

I don't know, I hope Jon realises that he won't get a penny unless he actually hits his target. My main fear is that Jon cites the lack of investment as a sure sign that people aren't interested in his game. I think there's a massive market for a game like this, I just don't believe Jon has maximised the use of his campaign page by being initially vague about the gameplay options. Also, "Sociable Soccer". That just doesn't send the right message imho.

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #34 on: 16 November 2015, 15:16:23 »
I see comments on the kickstarter page are starting to roll in begging for a SWOS style career mode... this would be my own big wish, along with nicely animated nets! :)
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline steviebwoy78

  • PRO
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #35 on: 16 November 2015, 15:21:05 »
I see comments on the kickstarter page are starting to roll in begging for a SWOS style career mode... this would be my own big wish, along with nicely animated nets! :)
Total agreement with you there! :) Are you on the KS comments by the way? I'm watching it like a hawk (and commenting rather a lot too!)..

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #36 on: 16 November 2015, 15:31:20 »
Not yet, still lurking :p Maybe I should post a hello? :)

Edit: done! :p
« Last Edit: 16 November 2015, 15:36:59 by higgipoker »
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline steviebwoy78

  • PRO
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #37 on: 16 November 2015, 15:37:10 »
Not yet, still lurking :p Maybe I should post a hello? :)
Aha... ;)...

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #38 on: 16 November 2015, 15:39:46 »
Not yet, still lurking :p Maybe I should post a hello? :)
Aha... ;)...

I posted my xmas list... :)
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #39 on: 17 November 2015, 10:20:48 »
New update posted on the kickstarter page.

Confirmed, no career mode. Totally understandable if you ask me. If the game is successful, like Sensible, I expect to see a "Sociable World of Soccer" in a couple of years!  ;D
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline ElMichaJ

  • ElMichaJ
  • Administrator
  • SWOS Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
  • Gender: Male
    • ElMichaJ
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #40 on: 17 November 2015, 10:50:40 »
well sad news ....

Multi Player online career would be the best .... but now its only a game, which i am not really interested in ....
hey hey hey .... ElMichaJ



Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #41 on: 17 November 2015, 11:41:38 »
well sad news ....

Multi Player online career would be the best .... but now its only a game, which i am not really interested in ....

Don't take this the wrong way, but isn't that a little short sighted? This project needs your support!

We only got SWOS after years of Sensible Soccer topping the charts. The success allowed them to spend three years developing an awesome career mode on top of an already great game.

Unless we want to wait  6 years for the game (never mind the financial impossibility), a great game with slick online play is already enough to expect.
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at

Offline steviebwoy78

  • PRO
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #42 on: 17 November 2015, 12:15:53 »
well sad news ....

Multi Player online career would be the best .... but now its only a game, which i am not really interested in ....

Don't take this the wrong way, but isn't that a little short sighted? This project needs your support!

We only got SWOS after years of Sensible Soccer topping the charts. The success allowed them to spend three years developing an awesome career mode on top of an already great game.

Unless we want to wait  6 years for the game (never mind the financial impossibility), a great game with slick online play is already enough to expect.

Totally agree with higgipoker here. It's driving me a bit potty that people aren't thinking about the long game for this one. Too many spoilt children throwing their dolls out of their prams because they're not getting everything they want all at once. This is just the first iteration. In order for you to have your online career Mr "SWOS Legend", you have to help to build the series from the ground up.

Jon hasn't got the money or time to do everything we want. It takes time, and it'll take investment. He won't be able to please everyone and he's probably as frustrated as we are that he can't do everything he wants to - but support the Kickstarter, show him that we want a new footie game from Jon Hare, and he can build from the first release.

It's just the beginning, without your support there won't even be a beginning. Get on board and show the world that we're fed up with "next gen" bullshit football games. It's time for the King to return.

Offline ElMichaJ

  • ElMichaJ
  • Administrator
  • SWOS Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2080
  • Gender: Male
    • ElMichaJ
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #43 on: 17 November 2015, 12:33:49 »
well .... i will support the game a bit.

i really must say that i dont like the graphic styles and the name.

they are the coders, so they decide what they want to realize.

i really hope that they will include maybe an arcade mode with old gaming style ...
because currently it looks like a mix of sensi 98 and sensi 2006, which were both bullshit.

also they should have a better board, where its possible to discuss feature wishes and so on.

- career mode
- better diycup generator (the current descripted way is not really good)
- fast gaming, one button, no 3d, swos layout

thats my opinion and the reason, why i am a bit scared to suppurt with full heart
hey hey hey .... ElMichaJ



Offline higgipoker

  • Cpt.
  • ***
  • Posts: 316
    • Game Coding for Fun
Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!
« Reply #44 on: 17 November 2015, 12:43:25 »
This is why I was kinda trying to emphasize in a previous post - this is not Sensible Soccer. This has nothing to do with Sensible Soccer. We should not base expectations on Sensible Soccer.

It is a completely new game from the creator of Sensible Soccer.

Rather than "holy shit a new sensible soccer!" The hype should be "holy shit a brand new footy game from Jon Hare!"

I understand the use of the name to drum up support and interest, but it's kind of a catch 22.

All I'll say about the graphic style and name is that people said the same thing about original sensi... then they played it and the rest is history.

Completely agree that a dedicated forum for the community would be nice. Perhaps this is something they are holding off on until the project is funded.... or not!

And I also agree with you on the control system, but Hare has earned my blind faith for now :) I'll support the game until release no matter what bat-shit crazy things they announce in the meantime ;)

P.S. I don't really know a lot about the kickstarter model - what is the likely course of events if they don't achieve the funding goal?
Game Coding for Fun                                                                                   SWOS Data Editor
http://www.digital-minds-blog.blogspot.com                                     http://www.swosdata.higgis.at