Author Topic: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update  (Read 140923 times)

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Offline ruicosta10fc

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #270 on: 12 June 2016, 15:10:42 »
Hi, what a great project this is! I can help with the Rep Ireland and Mexico leagues!
« Last Edit: 12 June 2016, 18:30:10 by ruicosta10fc »

Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #271 on: 12 June 2016, 17:56:39 »
Hi, what a great project his is! I can help with the Rep Ireland and Mexico leagues!

Cool, thanks ruicosta! :) Assigned you to REP. IRELAND + MEXICO LEAGUES!
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Current assignments and editing status: http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=26241

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Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #272 on: 13 June 2016, 06:54:31 »
Nice, Gorzo. It was fun looking through the national teams :)

On a side note: your Croatia is a bit drunk :)

P.S. Probably would've been better to do this after EURO when the exact teams could be known :)

P.P.S. Some older players really suffering because of their lower price which translates to lower skill in SWOS.


« Last Edit: 13 June 2016, 07:06:50 by Sida79 »

Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #273 on: 13 June 2016, 18:18:26 »
I have just googled up a nice statistic of how player values change with age, just for fun :)
It seems prices peak at about 26-27 on average and start dropping for players under 23 and over 30.

So for example in Gorzo's national teams file Buffon is worth 1M, while Sirigu on the bench is worth 2M.
So it seems strange that Sirigu's on the bench.
But if we account for the price drop with age, it would seem 38yo Buffon is at least 4 or 5 times the player Sirigu is!

Also in Spanish national team Casillas is worth 1,3M while De Gea on the bench is worth 5M - talk about strange decisions!
However, seeing Casillas is 10 years older, with adjusted price he comes to being just around 20% better than De Gea.

Interesting :)

Offline Gorzo

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #274 on: 13 June 2016, 19:43:07 »
Thx Sida :) In determing the players I looked at the minutes on the pitch in qualifiyng for Euro 2016 what about Spain or Italy do not look at it because these are my old prices :) someone else update other teams :) 

Offline xflea

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #275 on: 13 June 2016, 19:48:07 »
oh well

regardless the indication you may choose it seems Brazil won't be as strong as in the original database...

and they messed up with Copa America as well

interesting if you filter the most valuable players on transfermarkt - and check Brazilians...

Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #276 on: 13 June 2016, 20:01:50 »
someone else update other teams :) 

Sorry, I phrased that sentence wrong :)

On a side note, I've found a way to additionally randomize the skills of unknown midfielders. Since transfermarkt counts how many times they played each position, for example if they played 60% of the time as an AM and 40% as DM I use that info to slightly boost their AM and cut their DM skills (starting from "middle ground"). Along with other factors, makes for lots of combinations!

Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #277 on: 15 June 2016, 16:03:53 »
About that age issue:
In SWOS 96/97, many older players have a lower price than they would have in their prime.
Best example: Diego Maradona!

More examples:
- Guido Buchwald (GER).
- Salvatore Schillaci (ITA).
- Jorginho (BRA)
- Ivan Hasek (CZE)

The list could be continued with many many players of 96/97 who were way more expensive (and thus: better skilled) in their prime time/age.


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Please maintain >>> transfermarkt.de/com price table <<< for all players you edit!
Buffon of 2016 is by far not that good as he was in his prime. And that's just an example.

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This update is more than an update. It shall capture a moment in football history! And that moment is 2016/17... not 2006,7,8...
« Last Edit: 15 June 2016, 16:12:23 by Playaveli »

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Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #278 on: 15 June 2016, 17:07:42 »
Of course, but I wasn't talking about their prime... nor was I suggesting we abandon the price scheme.

The issue is that in real life price represents both skill and age while in SWOS it only represents skill, since SWOS players don't age.
It's only an issue in SWOS since there are great and cheap old players in all games where players age.
If I remember the players you named were still decent in SWOS, so the price probably reflects their post-serious-career skills :)

I'm sticking to the rules for this update, but I've seen that issue many times when I would do croatian league updates every year.
When a once-top player retires to such a weak league, he's often godlike in comparison to other players.
IRL his price will be the same as of his teammates or even much lower, simply because for players in their prime their price reflects skill, while for 35 year olds price represents but a fraction of their skill so in SWOS you may be forced to turn what is a really bad team with one quite decent player into a really bad team with one player that's even worse than the rest.




Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #279 on: 15 June 2016, 17:13:58 »
If I remember the players you named were still decent in SWOS, so the price probably reflects their post-serious-career skills :)

You are totally free to replicate that for 16/17!
Couldn't be better!

Maradona is a perfect example:
http://swos.gazchap.com/index.php?teamid=163

Old, but still great ball control and passing. But lack of speed/tackling, which are "age-relative-skills".
Edit with a portion of common sense, and you cannot miscue it.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2016, 17:21:34 by Playaveli »

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Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #280 on: 15 June 2016, 19:22:07 »
Yes, the problem is not nearly as pronounced for better teams and players that are not too old or were such world class players that they have a decent price until the day they retire, that's why I make sure younger players have a bit more secondary skills and older have only key skills.

However, when your most expensive player is 300k and your "star gramps" is 110k, you're out of options... 110k is 9 skill points so he can only have 1 top skill. Or one good and one mediocre :)


Offline Playaveli

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #281 on: 15 June 2016, 20:09:47 »
However, when your most expensive player is 300k and your "star gramps" is 110k, you're out of options... 110k is 9 skill points so he can only have 1 top skill. Or one good and one mediocre :)

Ah, well, that price range (below 300k)  is a different story. I think nobody will a) dramatize and/or b) even notice when you give some extra cash for one or another of the older guys, in a region of transfermarkt x1.5, for some special old players!
Just keep it well balanced.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2016, 21:57:55 by Playaveli »

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Offline Bomb

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #282 on: 15 June 2016, 20:12:16 »
---
Current assignments and editing status: http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=26241

In the meantime, I finished LITHUANIA league. Uploaded!

@playa: good news!
@all: and great to see the progress on  http://www.sensiblesoccer.de/forum/index.php?topic=26241. insane load of work there.

I'll try to finish african continent inthe next weeks.



Offline Duck

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #283 on: 15 June 2016, 23:30:27 »
Hello, if Gorzo is not particularly interested in the Czech Republic, I can take it.

I have experiences with editing, about 10 years ago we (me, ceBBek, Giorro) were making massive updates like this (unfortunately pages are gone, so you remember me or you must trust me:D)

Red from the Czech Republic



Offline Sida79

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Re: SWOS 16/17 - The official unofficial Update
« Reply #284 on: 16 June 2016, 06:39:54 »
I think nobody will a) dramatize and/or b) even notice when you give some extra cash for one or another of the older guys, in a region of transfermarkt x1.5, for some special old players!

That's ok, I can always make an unofficial one just for my own enjoyment!
We can address the issue on 30 years anniversary update :D