Thoughts on SWOS 2020

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3 months 8 hours ago #142798 by sokratees9
To start with, I'd just like to say a massive thank you to the team that put together the SWOS 2020 Total Pack (and everything else that goes on around it). It is a step above and beyond the previous high water mark of the SWOS Total Pack 1.5 (which I still have installed and am using to compare the two versions).

I've played a lot of seasons already of the new incarnation, and a lot of other random games/preset tournaments for fun, and it is a great feat of engineering to get all this running on full screen with all the additional options that you've created.

But in the course of all this, I get the feeling that this is not SWOS at its purest. There are a few minor things that seem out of place, or that they may come from the PC version (I'm not a fan of it, and play 99.9% Amiga Sensi), and it gives me an uncanny valley feel.

- Half time often blows immediately after scoring a goal on 45 or 90 minutes. Is this a PC thing that has migrated over? Someone else pointed this out on another thread in this forum
- I miss more penalties than usual, but the CPU still scores 99% of the time
- Lots of lower league players have the same three skills in their positions. It all seems much more homogenous that the 96/97 version, where the players seemed to vary much more. I've nothing to back this up than a feeling, but I might try to dig through the team DBs for 96/97 and 19/20 and do some sort of statistical analysis. Will update here if I do.
- It is noticeably faster. Is this intentional?
- My usual tactic of passing the ball to the LW from the kick off and trying to score a long range goal rarely results in a long range shot on target (often short or wide). I thought it might be me (getting old, or too many beers) or my control pad (taking a beating from playing this too much), but when I went back to the 1.5 Total pack, I was able to do it much more freely.
- In a similar vein, corners are different too. I usually pass to the closest player, then thread a ball into a striker in the box to have a pop at goal, but again, the success rate on average is much lower.

The last two are interesting, as it might make me vary my play a bit more, and could lead me to being a better player (any chance you guys have somehow tweaked the game to make these trickier?).

I'd also be interested to know how the Amiga and PC versions interact. I am assuming that under the hood it is the PC version running, but when you go to play a game (if you choose Amiga), you guys inject a container running the Amiga SWOS version to actually play the game. Whatever it is, it's very impressive.

Also, does it make a difference when you set up if you choose the swos.hdf file or the gog SWOS install? I have both but choose the former, but I doubt it makes a difference. Is it just a check to show that you have a version of the game already?

Thanks again for all the hard work and fantastic result.
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3 months 6 hours ago #142801 by lemonheadiv
Replied by lemonheadiv on topic Thoughts on SWOS 2020
Thanks for your detailed feedback, much appreciated.

Just a quick reply on the gameplay speed being different: Amiga game style has the same speed as Amiga SWOS running in WinUAE.
Using the 96/97 database would probably help comparing the two.

Pointing to swos.hdf or to the GoG version when installing makes no difference, it's just a check.
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2 months 4 weeks ago - 2 months 4 weeks ago #142805 by Playaveli
Replied by Playaveli on topic Thoughts on SWOS 2020
Goals, corners, everything related to gameplay is 100% identical to either DOS or AMIGA gameplay mode, whichever you pick! If you do not score the same goals there must be other reasons...

(You can rely on the judgement of some of the world's finest SWOS players here!)

Game speed is 100% spot on for either Amiga (50 FPS) or DOS (70FPS). It is not faster, it is not slower!
Do not compare it to a DOSbox which is always off...

Do not be fooled with the same 3 letters. The skills might still vary.

For the Amiga mode it's not an "injected container"... :) When activated the game uses the exact gameplay parameters of the reverse engineerd Amiga version.
Last edit: 2 months 4 weeks ago by Playaveli.

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2 months 4 weeks ago - 2 months 4 weeks ago #142814 by captaincofresi
Playaveli wrote:

Goals, corners, everything related to gameplay is 100% identical to either DOS or AMIGA gameplay mode, whichever you pick! If you do not score the same goals there must be other reasons...


This is not true. Just tested an exact copy of a DIY file I have in SWOS 2020 in the AmigaSWOS app in offline mode. All with the exact same teams and tactics EDIT: Due to the fact the tactics files from 2020 are not compatible with AmigaSWOS I was using different tactics, this might influence how goalkeeper behave? . Goalkeepers behave very differently in each Amiga game. Here is how:

SWOS 2020 in Amiga mode:
  1. In about 40% of the goalkeeper saves, it will not hold the ball but bounce off perpendicular away from the goal.
  2. When coming to the goal from outside the box in an 45 degrees angle, and curving the shot outwards with either the left/right key on my keypad will go in about 30% of the time.

Amiga SWOS in Offline mode:
  1. Only in about 5% of the goalkeeper saves, it will not hold the ball but bounce off perpendicular away from the goal. When diving the goalkeeper will mostly dive to the sides and stomp the ball away to the sides. If a shot it aimed more in the center of the goal it's far more often likely the goalkeeper will catch and hold the ball.
  2. When coming to the goal from outside the box in an 45 degrees angle, and curving the shot outwards with either the left/right key on my keypad will go in about 60-70% of the time.

EDIT: Since I did use different tactics in SWOS 2020 and Amiga SWOS I could not test this properly. So now it might be that goalkeeper behavior is closely related to the tactics. Hence, goalkeepers stomp the ball away to the nearest available player. With a compact formation, it will be more in the center. With a wide formation, such as the default 5-3-2 is will be more to the sides. Hope to test this properly once the tactics made in SWOS 2020 can be used in Amiga SWOS and in Normal mode in SWOS 2020. So still a bug to fix there, also posted this in the Bug Reports. Still it doesn't really explain why the 45 degrees curver out shots go in more in AmigaSWOS than in the SWOS 2020 Expert mode, or it might be that a longer run up really helps a lot for those shots. Wich I have if I play with/against more open formations.
Last edit: 2 months 4 weeks ago by captaincofresi. Reason: Noticed I was not using the same Tactics since tactics made in SWOS 2020, since are not compatible with AmigaSWOS, so that makes the test flawed. Will test it again when that bug is fixed.

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2 months 4 weeks ago #142840 by captaincofresi
Playaveli wrote:

Do not be fooled with the same 3 letters. The skills might still vary.


Do you mean that the 3 letters for the skills do not represent the skills of the players at all with the '19 / '20 database?
Since I do use those as the base for my tactics at the moment, mostly the S,F,V skills that is. And sometimes the C skill.

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2 months 4 weeks ago #142842 by Playaveli
Replied by Playaveli on topic Thoughts on SWOS 2020
If they have 5 skills of the same point count, they can of course vary.
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2 months 4 weeks ago - 2 months 4 weeks ago #142844 by captaincofresi
Thanks! Ah yes, that makes sense :) . Looking forward to seeying the skills of all teams on the comparison website mid January.
Last edit: 2 months 4 weeks ago by captaincofresi.

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