SWOS 2020 - bug reports

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2 months 3 weeks ago #146372 by MM40
Replied by MM40 on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
Hi everybody, I have some questions about 2020 for the admins. I could write someone of them in private but I think it will be more useful and even helpful to write them here, so that anyone of us can contribute to a debate that now is really fundamental.
Tons of gratitude for the huge and wonderful work done won't be cancelled by any perplexity of mine, by the way; however in my opinion (better say it twice: it's my opinion) 2020 is a poor imitation of SWOS. And I can't find any fun in it.
So, the questions:

1)Why the keepers don't keep? Scoring has never been so easy. Forget 0-0's and 1-0's: in 2020 a match with less than 4 goals is more unique than rare. Keepers are often out of position, they follow the ball horizontally in an unnatural way and, most of all, they all seem dumb. You can score even shooting straight in the middle of the goal. It's crazy, and unfunny at all.

2)Why tackles are almost cancelled? In 2020 a red card is rare, too. Good for me, I play rough sometimes (hey, I said sometimes!), but it's anyway no fun to eliminate contrasts. Fouls are useful sometimes (hey, I said... ok, ok). Some are funny to look at, too. Less tackles, less cards, less penalties: less fun. I like the fact that this means also less stolen balls/ghost players, but is it really a progress not to be able to tackle your opponent? I don't think so.

3)Why do I have connection problems even with players near to me, I never had problems with before? I can play perfectly with Argentina, I saw that, but I have more problems than ever with european players. And “problems” in 2020 means teleporting: a new thing for everyone of us. Lag in SWOS (ASWOS) was just a short break for both players: in 2020 it's teleporting (footballers disappear and then appear somewhere else) and I guess we just have to get used to it.

4)Is it my feeling or players in 2020 lose the ball so easily? To me it looks like BC is much poorer and I just can't figure out why Suker (BC7) can't go straight ahead with the ball just in the middle of his feet. Everything seems so hard in 2020, even simple passings. But goals are way easier, when you finally manage to shoot towards the goal.

5)Why do we have to go back to the match settings page everytime a match ends? And, most of all, why do we have to wait another 5 secs to start a new match? Wouldn't it be easier to stay in the pitch as it was in SWOS/ASWOS and eventually choose to go back to the settings page whenever we should need that?

6)If the main difference between SWOS/ASWOS and 2020 is only a screen resolution issue, couldn't we play – in the future, of course – with the old screen resolution? Facts say this is not true, the differences are too many (i.e.: even when you start the match, you can pass the ball to your teammates behind you: and that's not SWOS, it's simply another game) and also when playing offline with Original Amiga Screen these problems will stay, so I am not sure that the answer is about screen resolution. But let's try any possible way, why not.

7)Why is the match settings page empty so often? Sometimes it seems so hard to play a match even with a player that's near to you. Maybe I do something wrong creating the match, I take my part of faults with no problem at all. We're here to learn, too. And that's why I felt the need to write this stuff.

If somebody has any more issues to talk about, he's welcome. Waiting for some answers in no hurry, thank you.
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2 months 3 weeks ago #146374 by thd79
Replied by thd79 on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports

Hi everybody, I have some questions about 2020 for the admins. I could write someone of them in private but I think it will be more useful and even helpful to write them here, so that anyone of us can contribute to a debate that now is really fundamental.
Tons of gratitude for the huge and wonderful work done won't be cancelled by any perplexity of mine, by the way; however in my opinion (better say it twice: it's my opinion) 2020 is a poor imitation of SWOS. And I can't find any fun in it.
So, the questions:

1)Why the keepers don't keep? Scoring has never been so easy. Forget 0-0's and 1-0's: in 2020 a match with less than 4 goals is more unique than rare. Keepers are often out of position, they follow the ball horizontally in an unnatural way and, most of all, they all seem dumb. You can score even shooting straight in the middle of the goal. It's crazy, and unfunny at all.


The keepers do keep. I would say behave 90-95% the same as Amiga. It's true that they sometimes get out of position in a way that does not happen on Amiga. However, 95% of the time I find they save the same shots they do on Amiga, and let in the same shots. Lots of work has been done on the keepers to try and get them exactly the same as Amiga. There is still some small difference, but honestly I think the difference is far smaller than you describe.

2)Why tackles are almost cancelled? In 2020 a red card is rare, too. Good for me, I play rough sometimes (hey, I said sometimes!), but it's anyway no fun to eliminate contrasts. Fouls are useful sometimes (hey, I said... ok, ok). Some are funny to look at, too. Less tackles, less cards, less penalties: less fun. I like the fact that this means also less stolen balls/ghost players, but is it really a progress not to be able to tackle your opponent? I don't think so.


I don't recognise any of that, sorry. To me, it plays exactly the same in this regard.

3)Why do I have connection problems even with players near to me, I never had problems with before? I can play perfectly with Argentina, I saw that, but I have more problems than ever with european players. And “problems” in 2020 means teleporting: a new thing for everyone of us. Lag in SWOS (ASWOS) was just a short break for both players: in 2020 it's teleporting (footballers disappear and then appear somewhere else) and I guess we just have to get used to it.


The online mode for SWOS2020 will hopefully continue to improve with time. When you play, are you making manual changes to the Frame Delay settings, or leaving on 'Auto'? You can increase the number from the suggested default (which is calculated based on ping), and this will reduce the artefacts you describe.

4)Is it my feeling or players in 2020 lose the ball so easily? To me it looks like BC is much poorer and I just can't figure out why Suker (BC7) can't go straight ahead with the ball just in the middle of his feet. Everything seems so hard in 2020, even simple passings. But goals are way easier, when you finally manage to shoot towards the goal.


I don't have this feeling at all. To me it plays the same, but better than ASWOS due to the fixed input delay, which allows for greater control. It's more like playing on a real Amiga.

5)Why do we have to go back to the match settings page everytime a match ends? And, most of all, why do we have to wait another 5 secs to start a new match? Wouldn't it be easier to stay in the pitch as it was in SWOS/ASWOS and eventually choose to go back to the settings page whenever we should need that?


From going back to the settings page it is just one click to go to the next match, so isn't it basically the same thing as ASWOS? The 5 second wait is to give the non-hosting player time to change their team, etc, if they want to.

6)If the main difference between SWOS/ASWOS and 2020 is only a screen resolution issue, couldn't we play – in the future, of course – with the old screen resolution? Facts say this is not true, the differences are too many (i.e.: even when you start the match, you can pass the ball to your teammates behind you: and that's not SWOS, it's simply another game) and also when playing offline with Original Amiga Screen these problems will stay, so I am not sure that the answer is about screen resolution. But let's try any possible way, why not.


At some point in the future it might be possible to play online games with the original aspect ratio. Perhaps the ability to pass the ball back from kick off could be toggled on/off in the future. But to say that this small thing makes the game "not SWOS" is a huge exaggeration! :)

7)Why is the match settings page empty so often? Sometimes it seems so hard to play a match even with a player that's near to you. Maybe I do something wrong creating the match, I take my part of faults with no problem at all. We're here to learn, too. And that's why I felt the need to write this stuff.


What do you mean by 'so often'. Are there certain players that this always happens with? Are there players with whom it happens sometimes and not other times? What proportion of online matches are you seeing this on? The more specific you are, the more it helps developers fix problems.

Have you set up port forwarding (6000-6009 UDP) on your router? I have this set up and I have never had this issue.
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2 months 3 weeks ago #146375 by gatifun
Replied by gatifun on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
I think auto framedelay in swos2020 is good. Setting lower framedelay not necessarily improves the experience. Furthemore, 3 or even 4 delay is much better than in kaillera aswos.
On other hand, changes are always initially hard, but it's worth a try to get used to swos2020 for several weeks, and then, decide. In my case, after several weeks of testing, I prefer finally swos2020.
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2 months 3 weeks ago #146379 by Brummie
Replied by Brummie on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
i would love to see a goal scored in Swos 20 that cant be done in ASWOS and vice versa....i have yet to see anything new in Swos 20 that i / we cant already do in ASWOS. I can't say i see anything in the gameplay that is exclusive to ASWOS or SWOS20 apart from visuals. Keepers are shite in both if you know the right angles / timing to shoot.... I saw MM40 say the other day he saw a goal scored down the middle in SWOS20 , but you can score this exact same goal in ASWOS, just to the side from centre - outside the box, and bend it to the middle of the goal? . . As the guys stated, some videos would be nice.

I just feel that the ones who are struggling now are the ones who never embraced Swos20 at all since its initial release, buried their heads in the sand and just continued on ASWOS . I'm sure time spent in the game will iron out their issues. I've played both for a couple years now and just do not agree that we are playing different games at different speeds etc.

Also less lag has a bigger impact on your opponent successfully being able to position right and shoot at the right time in certain areas - hence MORE GOALS ...a bit of lag can delay the shot and get you tackled, or miss an input completely and spank the ball wide , when you are convinced you had lined up a straight shot (L type goal) that ends up closer to the corner flag than the post
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2 months 3 weeks ago #146381 by MM40
Replied by MM40 on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
"changes are always initially hard"

Could anybody disagree? Of course they are. But I'll go on trying to play 2020 because I know it's the right thing, even if I do not like it. It's important to me that one fact is clear: I am trying in any possible way to play and to get used (and become friends) to 2020, but I still find it so different... and so unpleasant in the end. I see I'm not the only one. Yes, I still prefer ASWOS and maybe the right time to accept 2020 could be months, who knows. To me it's no problem to resign from the tournaments in the meantime, and this is the most sincere way I could say it. Maybe I'll be around here in the future and one day I'll start again but with 2020. It's perfectly ok.

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2 months 3 weeks ago #146382 by djowGer
Replied by djowGer on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
Some feedback from me.

The screen change fadeout effect in the menus looks different from page to page. Sometimes the fading is instant and sometimes it is slow? Any response to this? Should just be instant imo, or perhaps adjustable.

I agree along with others, it seems that the behavior of the keepers are kind of weird. At least for Amiga online. Needs some tweaking if possible.

I enjoy many of the features of Swos 2020, but one thing I don't like is the forced resolution to widescreen. I really hope that this can be altered in future versions. Props for trying out new stuff, but the gameplay feeling is completely off for me in this mode. I still prefer original Amiga/Dos resolutions over the new, mostly as the game feels more intense in the original format. If it is only a matter of minimizing desynchs, at least let the players decide if they want to play wide or original resolutions as long as both agrees. If they don't, then yes it is a problem, and will be hard to choose as a ruleset, if one player prefers one format over the other. I don't want to divide the community more than it already is (PC/AMIGA/XBOX versions) I like all editions of Swos.

This next part is not so much about Swos 2020. For general performance I still have some issues even offline doesn't matter if it is Aswos or 2020. I have tried many nvidia and monitor hz settings for optimizing gameplay feeling. I run a 144hz gaming monitor using displayport to gtx 970. Should be more than enough for smooth gameplay, but it doesn't seem so. In example i tried lowering monitor hz to 100 playing amiga at 50hz, but this seems to cause small "slow downs" or lags. The best performance I can get is PC Swos (2020) @ 70 fps on 144 monitor hz.
Having played too much on Crt screens in the past plus xp/win 7, it really bothers me than the more modern hardware I get, the worse the performance gets (further away from offline experience)...
The following user(s) said Thank You: Playaveli, MM40

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2 months 3 weeks ago #146385 by Playaveli
Replied by Playaveli on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
@djowger: Can you record a video of this fading issues? I don’t seem to see it on my end.

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2 months 3 weeks ago #146391 by CrimsonCorsair9
Hi,

Since the latest patch (Swos exe version 5.0.9) I have noted the following issues when continuing with the 2nd year of a career. Also using launcher version 5.0.2.

Menu sound was initially not playing on opening despite being 'on' in the audio options. Toggled sound off/on within audio menu and it appears to have resolved.

There seems to be an issue editing tactics using controller i.e. unable to alter positions since this update. I have to use mouse to exit the tactics screen.

When playing a game 'player A' scored 3 goals. I subbed 'player A' with 'player B'. 'Player B' then scored and on the scoresheet it listed 'player B' as scoring 4 goals. I then went to the high scorer list following the game and it had correctly noted the scorer numbers allocated to the appropriate players.

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2 months 2 weeks ago #146397 by Playaveli
Replied by Playaveli on topic SWOS 2020 - bug reports
Hm, what is your controller setting in OPTIONS / CONTROLS?
Tactic editing works fine. USB Controller on PLAYER 1 and NONE on PLAYER 2.

I cannot reproduce the Player A/B bug. Can you be more specific? Does Player A score all goals in same half and Player B, too?
Did you see this bug more than 1 time?

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2 months 2 weeks ago #146398 by CrimsonCorsair9
Hi,

Using Xbox One controller, but via the keyboard option as I have experienced issues trying to calibrate and use the controller in game out with this. The controller seems to work fine through the other menus and when in game.

I have only played a few games since the patch, so only noticed the incorrect scorer issue once. I believe that goals from player A were spread over both halves. I have not noticed this issue before, but once player B scored (his replacement) it definitely allocated the 4 goals to him, but was fine in the high scorer list.

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