Re: Important questions, or about our future

It is the 8th wonder of the world that SWoS can still exist, and we have a wonderful community. But in the same time, we have problems or questions to answer. I have tried to summarize the most important questions. (Order below is not important.)

I have sent the questions to ElMichaJ and he answered very positively, but let s find the answers together!

I don’t really feel like starting a discussion about the questions, rather, I want to form some workgroups to find the answers! (Ofc some discussion is considered necessary, but it is the answers we need.) I have a bad habit: speak/write too much, and some of my good friends here like me, but please try to focus to the specific problems! Even if this post is also very long.

There are some questions where the answer will be easy to find, there are harder ones, and some cannot be answered or we will have just guesses. In some questions we need one or more specific persons (admin) to reply, some can be answered by some/anybody. (First questions about the shrinking of the community, and later some others.)

---

1. Why have veteran, legendary players left or become rare to see?
Ofc every person/life are different, so there is no one answer. But we should know it, at least statistically. Maybe we should make a survey for the legendary guys. I guess many would tell us their own opinions, and it would be very beneficial. (One thing is sure: we really-really miss them!)

2. Why don’t many new players ever start playing after registering?
This is a hard one. Maybe we can have guesses only.

3. What can we do to make more newly registered players start playing, at least once?
If they play at least once, than (not all, but) some of them would stay with us. If not, than not.

4. What can we do to invite new players?
I think this is mostly a national task. One country has great success in the recent past (Poland), and Italy also have some success (with 12 active players in league, and some outside the league), but all other nations are not successful. The best answers maybe the experiences, recruiting methods of Poland and Italy, but ofc others can have some other examinations.

5. Where are all the other nations, especially some very active ones?
Ofc in many countries SWoS is not popular (it might be changed but it is out of scope now), but there are some where it’s very popular, but they are missing/gone. Most important are the Czech guys, as I know SWoS is very popular there. The EX-YU countries are also a question, great SWoS life there, but where are they? Some other (previously more active) nations are missing, too.

6. What can we do against TEAM? – HF – GGS – THX attitude? How can be bring back (more) fun and friendship?
Maybe some of you don’t consider this a problem, but for me, this is one of the greatest. A lot of players don’t speak English, sometimes we do not want to speak at all even in our languages, and there are different personalities. I don’t think we have to do anything against any player (ofc not!) or force them to communicate etc. (ofc not) but we have to organize the community to a better community, not just a bunch of players. Fun cups or anything can be a good solution. I can see Friendly League on forum, as a good example. But there may be other good answers. Jonathant’s World Cup is a good example of how a small idea can bring new life (and some elder back) on board. (But it’s not just adding more cups.)

7. Who is responsible for what, more precisely: who can do what?
The last weeks focus spotlight to this problem. To find the answer, we have to make a list of the tasks, and fill out who can do what, from season starting via forum clearing to ASL and ISSF things. We can not expect from anybody to do a lot of work as a volunteer, but in the same time we have a number of other volunteers who are active.

8. Will there be a new site? What will it be like? What is our status?
ElMichaJ has said there will be a new one. I personally don’t think it is needed (but would be nice), and it is a huge work ofc. But the question is not if it is needed or not, easy or hard to make, but if there will be one at all, and what it will be like. The last question (our status) is about how ss.de working. In the past, some very active guys created a lot of things. Now there is no Lobo, no Playa etc. But in the same time there are some guys who would do more (Rock does a lot of work nowadays, Ruichi, Italian admins, Jonathant, me etc. would also take part - sorry if I miss out somebody, this is not an exclusive list - want/eager to do more. Can we manage things here? Or will you come back? Or do you want to reorganize, recreate the site? Or is it too much work/time and you can not continue? (For me every possible answer can be acceptable, but we should know the answer.) I ask this with much respect for the creators and managers of the sites in the past years!

Let s work together, and find the answers!

I am starting to answer myself.
8. The questions were written about a month ago, before Rock Roll, and St. Vitus started to work as admins and ElMichaJ asked for help in coding. Luckily this question is partly answered.

1. ElMichaJ have a very nice idea: A Hall of Fame. I have some ideas who it can be work, and how can (maybe) bring some veterans back. I will start it as a separated thread in forum. But the main questions is the WHY (even if we have guesses)?

7. ElMichaJ answered that he will make a Wiki and ticketing system, so it will be clear. I think, that way this questions will almost answered!

Hi

Interesting post my friend, and good points for discussion. Thanks for mentioning the World Cup too!

In my opinion, what we have here is a specialist site that caters for those of us that loved and still love the wonderful game of swos. Now, what we all must acknowledge is that this is a game that is 15 years old, and there are many new and exciting ways folks can spend their online gaming time. I m not sure my kids would want to play swos online when they could be playing against their mates on a PS3/xbox/nintendo/iphone whatever....when they are old enough! What this means is that
(1) most of the swos players or potential players are of a similar older generation, and therefore have other commitments to their time (work / family mainly i guess!);
(2) those people that do play do so because they love the game and have played it for a hell of a long time. Consequently the standard of play is really high. This is good, but I fear will scare off the casual gamer who wants to play for old-times-sake. Not everyone is happy to lose so much at first (or continue doing!) and stick with it.

Aside from this, there are the usual complaints that to play swos online is not as easy as going to a website and clicking play on the flash plugin or whatever. Which automatically tracks ranking/leagues etc. Unless anyone can develop a way to make the game that simple for the player, the appeal will be limited again to those that want to make the effort.

One other issue is the fact that Amiga Swos is the best, and to run the emulator you need the kickstart rom etc, and it feels what I will call rusty piracy . If that makes any sense!

So, as things stand the target audience remains those of us who are willing to make the effort to keep swos alive, and believe it deserves a place in the online gaming universe. Sensible World of Soccer will endure ups and downs, but it will never die! Like a beautiful vintage car, it just needs some love and a good service now and then!!

Turning into some kind of rousing speech at the end here sorry!

1. I think the question is wrong, you also know the answer for most of them.
2. Because they don t register to play online swos with people of ss.de, but because they think it s necessary in order to download the game from download section (maybe to play with their friends or to see if there are updated databases and so on...).
3. pay cash. Frankly... nothing, if they want to play they come and play.
4. Since when attracting new people is a priority? You just have to play swos if you like it. If they want to play swos, in case they ll come, more chances for them to find you in chat if you re active and online.
5. Same answer I gave for question 1.
6. If someone wants to talk talks, if he doesn t talk to you it s because doesn t want to. If he doesn t speak English at all...well, is it your problem or his problem?
Funcup are always a good thing, but sometimes I have the feeling that s only my opinion.
7. we can make a list of whatever we find wrong or improvement to make. We can talk for hours, for nothing if no admin acknowledges those problems or think there s a problem at all. To be clearer, in my opinion a topic like this one should come from them (the admins), not from you. Also, are volunteers needed? ...if yes for what? Or first you enroll then you get the assignment?
8. if Elmichaj feels the need to let us/you know anything, I am sure you/we ll be informed. I don t see why you worry so much about that.

The number of active members is not a problem or a way you measure the success or the state of a community. If you guys keep playing swos online because you love the game , what s better than that?
If people are not interested, there s nothing you can do. Or take my case, I would love to play but my connection is not reliable at the moment, too bad.
I found this place 12/2005 looking for swos online not knowing if such thing existed. I was so desperate I wrote random urls in the address bar : from sensible-soccer.com to swosonline.net, then one day I typed the right one.
I didn t know about emulators (not to mention desync), I didn t know about IRC, my english was (and is) more or less the pen is on the table , I had a cheap interleaved connection, no controller and my experience in online gaming (and internet in general) was very very limited.
That didn t stop me.

Anyway, as I said above, I don t understand. Admins or site owners should write about these things if they think that s the case, not a member.

1. dunno honestly, I guess age comes into the equation (you get older, married and oftentimes b*itched at if you do anything deemed as childish by society such as playing videogames , sucks but that s just how it is), some felt like there wasn t enough competition though (which isn t true imho), some (as far as I know) felt like they were getting ostracized and constantly downtalked by the admins and left (sometimes not in good terms either). The scene is also a little stale, same competitions over and over and over and over and that s about it...where the Goal of the Month competition, top players interviews, tournaments reports, highlights reels, new kinds of competitions and stuff at?

1. ElMichaJ have a very nice idea: A Hall of Fame. I have some ideas who it can be work, and how can (maybe) bring some veterans back. I will start it as a separated thread in forum. But the main questions is the WHY (even if we have guesses)?

Not to be disrespectful or anything but, as it stands, this is a terrible idea, it d quickly escalate into a popularity contest (just take a look at the players evaluation thingamagig on our personal pages on ss.de, lol) and only the ones who are popular and/or buddies of those in charge (depending on the induction criterias) would get inducted. Nope.jpg.



2./3. Off the top of my head:

a. Neither the website nor the game have been properly promoted, advertised or viraled in a long ass while. There s plenty of people out there who would be more than willing to give SWOS Online a shot (regardless of whether they ve played it before), problem is that they don t even know about sensiblesoccer.de. Real talk.

...and then there s kids (I mean people ranging from early teens to 20~ years old) who surely aren t gonna Google SWOS since they ve never, ever heard of it. Who knows how many Coolios and Blazejs are out there, unbeknownst of their SWOS talent!


b. the website/forums ARE. A. MESS. Get this straight. We need something much more simpler and streamlined (the stuff you need to play should be right there before your eyes the very moment you get on the site and the help section of the forums on top of every other category)...

case in point: earlier today some dude named Marwin who had never been here before got on the chat and started asking for help, well, finding a link TO DOWNLOAD THE GAME took me 15 minutes and 4 searches on the forums even though I ve been reading it on daily basis for the past 2 or 3 years (the !Amiga thing on the chat didn t work either)...

that is absolutely unacceptable, people come here from Google and can t even find a link to download the game, NO WONDER they just sign up and leave shortly thereafter.


c. the emulator is a bi*tch to set up and it doesn t seem to like laptops and the most recent operative systems either and this has been turning off people left and right (especially those who aren t exactly tech-savvy) for quite some time now...can t really do much of anything about it tho (tried to contact several emu and freeware netcodes developers myself but they just refuse to work with WinUAE/Amiga emulation so we re s*hit-out-of-luck).


d. Right now 80% of the userbase is comprised of Super-hardcore-Jedi-master-veterans who are likely to kick the living day lights out of any newb , to the point that they ll never even think about touching SWOS with a ten-foot pole ever again.

This is silly and counterproductive and we re in dire need of a separate Rookie circuit of competitions (à la ASL future champ cup) AND Ranking cause you can t realistically expect newbies to keep coming back if they get beaten 0-15 each and every match for 3 or 4 months straight (the gap is so huge and SWOS learning curve s so steep that at this point in time it s a very likely and almost unavoidable occurrence, unfortunately).


e. the chat is DEAD (no one ever talking, cracking jokes or mocking up their opponents as it normally happens on any other online community revolving around a competitive game) due to bad habits (OOO? FR? HF, GL, GH, GG? How about you use more than 2 letters for each sentence since we aren t talking over a goddamn morse telegraph from the 19th century? : ) and the common misconception that chatting the bare minimum and treating everyone else as if they were robots or AI s is COOL (pro tip: it s not) and as a result the community is dwindling.

Given this widespread ZERO-INTERACTION-CAUSE-IM-TOO-COOL-FOR-EVERYONE-ELSE attitude (and the language barrier has nothing to do with it), the odds of building bonds with other fellow SWOS fans are as slim as it gets and without them people won t ever give it a second thought upon leaving, the very moment something doesn t go their way...

If you guys somehow don t believe that new people are crucial for the prosperity of the community (and thus for the preservation of the game) you got your priorities backwards and are being close-minded elitists to the extreme...without new members this site will be a ghost town within a couple years and will go belly up shortly after, mark my words.




4. Posting on forums and websites about gaming and retrogaming and on Facebook is definitely the way to go.

Not to brag or anything but a few months back I ve single handedly summoned about 25 players who had never played SWOS Online before to the italian site sensibleita* (cause we needed entrants for the SWOS Online Career ...that s like more than the italian channel here ever had though) by just posting on forums for a week or so (nearly all of them were like woah can you REALLY play SWOS Online?! How comes no one ever told me that! . This alone proves that there s many people out there who would like to play SWOS Online but just don t know how to.

Now imagine if 2 or 3 volunteers from each nation did that consistently every odd month promoting sensiblesoccer.de instead...we d surely end up with a nearly neverending stream of new people.

*I then tried to make some of them play on ss.de as well but you guys just scared them off (they told me that here everyone s too hardcore and that newbies shouldn t be playing 24/7 with players this good from the get go cause losing every single match ain t fun )...which brings us back to points 2 and 3.



5. no idea.



6. First and foremost, people should start getting over themselves and be more talkative and willing to take jokes/being mocked up.

Half of the fun in any decent online community about competitive gaming comes from good natured boasting, jokingly/unmaliciously teasing and ribbing your opponents before, during (for instance, on Beat em ups, FPS s, RPG s, RTS s and even on FIFA you get people yelling at each other with microphones and stuff 24/7 and it s darn FUN) and after the game and laughing together about what happened during said match (much like people do after watching/playing an actual sports event). It helps a lot the suspension of disbelief that you re actually playing with REAL people despite being all alone in front of a computer screen, helps relieving the frustration (under the premise that no one takes it too far), helps making friends and makes you want to stick with them.

Needless to say that this is completely lost on ss.de since pretty much everyone (barring a few exceptions) acts like stuck-up robots who (proudly, no less) just play and shut up as if they were in a chess tournament or somesuch and will likely bring you to the arbitral tribunal, accusing you of unsportsmanship or racial slurs, if you dare teasing them or saying something during the match...fuc*king unreal if you ask me. :



7. no idea.



8. no idea since the higher ups flat out ignored my PM about the beta membership request, go figure...