Potential New Project

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12 years 8 months ago #103161 by cm2pes
Potential New Project was created by cm2pes
Hi all,

Fantastic site you have here. This will be a long post so I shall try to keep it short.

Start with will give you some background on me, will help with what I will eventually ask. I am currenctly part of the Championship Manager 0102 site as ja_santacruz. And am part of the SIM updating team. Because of that I eventually made a converter for Pro Evolution Soccer. Which has led me to my current project www.cm2pes.com.

But I have always been a huge fan of Sensible Soccer 96/97 for the PC. So I am now seriously thinking of making a converter for Sensible Soccer and converting the 2001-2002 database Current database to Sensible Soccer stats. Creating a project just like my CM2PES. At the same time I would love to make this into a patch.

Now it is something that I will definately do, because I would love to play with that database. The question is whether their is enough interest to make it public. (If not then I will add it on my site).

So I have some questions.

1. I have downloaded the SWOSeditor1.3 but can t find a guide anywhere for it? (I have found one on a different site, but the download link is dead).

2. Is there anything that I need to look out for so that the game doesn t crash by me changing player names and stats.

Wow I thought I had a huge bunch of questions, think I have had a mind blank.

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12 years 8 months ago #103187 by dimetrodon
Warmly Welcome here!

Maybe you should conntact with Synchronated, he is doing fantastic (and as I can see related) work. Here is his thread:
www.sensiblesoccer.info/forum/index.php?topic=1356.0

But anything you do it makes lot people happy :)

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12 years 8 months ago #103188 by cm2pes
Replied by cm2pes on topic Re: Potential New Project
Thanks for the info dimetrodon :)

Fantastic stuff he is doing. Will get in contact with him later on and ask for some tips on editing the database etc. Would be interesting to know how he distributes the skills.

Will leave the current database to Synchronated :D Will focus instead on the 2001/02 database :D

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12 years 8 months ago #103192 by cm2pes
Replied by cm2pes on topic Re: Potential New Project
Have sent him an Email.

The one thing I can t seem to understand is the stats. 0-15. But not linear?

It confuses me, until I understand that I won t be creating any sort of converter :P

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12 years 8 months ago #103197 by dimetrodon
Afaik
15=7
14=6
13=5
12=4
11=3
10=2
9=1
8=0

As I have understood, the only difference is, when SWOS shows the three most important attr. then it will use the three bigest. (Not necessarily the three best.) If I were you I would use just 0-7.

AFAIK!

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12 years 8 months ago #103201 by cm2pes
Replied by cm2pes on topic Re: Potential New Project
AFAIK?? lol

Okay, So according to your list If i put a 7 in, then it would have the same value as a 15?

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12 years 8 months ago #103203 by dimetrodon
AFAIK = I am not 100% sure. (But 98%)
:)

I have a kind of algorithm ti convert any 0...n value (or even not integers .) to 0...7. It is not difficult, but it not so easy as any may fist think. If you need it, I will write down the method.

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12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #103204 by cm2pes
Replied by cm2pes on topic Re: Potential New Project
Please Dimetrodon ;)

Struggling to get round the concept. Always played SWOS but tbh never really looked into it in much depth.

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12 years 8 months ago #103213 by djowGer
Replied by djowGer on topic Re: Potential New Project

Afaik
15=7
14=6
13=5
12=4
11=3
10=2
9=1
8=0

As I have understood, the only difference is, when SWOS shows the three most important attr. then it will use the three bigest. (Not necessarily the three best.) If I were you I would use just 0-7.

AFAIK!


the skill scale presented by dimetrodon is correct. a lot of people have done unofficial updates during the years (including myself) but i consider the work of sync to be the best and largest collection so far. he is the guy you want to speak to. his last update was done with a mix of fifa 11/pes11/football manager stats converted to swos values. his website can be found here: synchronated.110mb.com/

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12 years 8 months ago #103238 by dimetrodon
I think the best way is if the different people work together, and Synchronated did an excellent job. So why not join/help him? I will, this season again.

But here is my conversion method. First the problem.

Every player has a value (price), and 7 attributes, with possible 0...7 value. So the sum of a player s attributes can be anything from 0 to 49. (GKs are special, they have one attribute 0...49, but the sum is the same).

The player values are not dependent from that sum, but totally parallel: There are 50 possible values from 20K to 15M+. The scale is not linear, but there is exactly 50 value. So 0 is 20K, 1 is 25K, 2 is 30K ... 47 is 12M, 48 is 15M and 49 is 15M+.

So price and sum value is very easily convertible, without any issue.

Everything seems easy. But here is the problem. Let s say we have a database or jury for player attributes, and every player have 0...100 in all the 7 attributes (if the original db is not exactly use this 7 attr. that some conversion is needed, but that is db specific). We say 0...100, but it can be anything.

Eg. there is Messi int the db, he is one/the highest valued player (with maybe or not with the highest sum of attributes). He have high attributes, but he won’t have very high Heading or Tackle. Maybe a quite mediocre defender form a lower league, will have higher Heading and Tackle scores!

Let s say Messi have the highest price, 15M+, so in points it is 49.
The Hungarian defender is 130K, so it is 13.

The problem is in SWOS, that Messi must have 49 sum points, so all attributes must be 7!
And the defender can not have 7 and 7 for Tackle and Header, because with 0 for the other 5 attributes it is still 14, too much!

That is the main problem, there can not be a real solution. But here is my proposed solution/workaround:



0. You need a list of importance of attributes per position. Eg. For RB and LB 1st is S, 2nd T, etc.

1. Let s determine the value (price) for all player. Maybe first in money (don t forget the inflation and so on ;) but at the and in 0...49 values. So we have value for all players. Let s choose a player, and his value. I call it VALUE

2. Sum the original values. Let s say original attributes are O1, O2 ... O7 than OVALUE = O1 + O2 + ... + O7

3. Normalize the original attributes Eg. original attributes are O1, O2 ... O7, and if it is 0...100, than A1 = O1*VALUE/OVALUE, A2 = O2*VALUE/OVALUE ... A7 = O7*VALUE/OVALUE (don’t round up or down, use fractions).

4. We have now 7 SWOS attributes (from A1 to A2), the sum of them is VALUE, but some of them can be higher than 7.

5. If any of them is higher than 7, cut to 7.

6. Now round the values ROUND(A1)=AR1 ... ROUND(A7)=AR7 You also need the difference because of rounding: RD1= AR1-A1 ... RD7= AR2-A2. Plus or minus have importance!

7. Sum ARs (SUMAR) and if its VALUE, your work is over for this player.

8. If SUMAR is lower than VALUE, give +1 to the attribute, where RD is minimal (high negative for example), if it is not 7 already. If there is two equal RD, use the most important of them (see 0.). Give +1 to the corresponding RDx too. If SUMAR is still lower, or the 1st attribute is already 7, user the second (based firstly on minimal RD, based secondly on importance.) Do until SUMAR=VALUE

9. If SUMAR is higher than VALUE, do the reverse. (minus 1 from the maximal RD, and from them the last important, etc.)

And it is over. For one player ;) Don t do it by hand!! :D

Sorry if it is too complicated, but I can not see better way! :)

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