Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?

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12 years 6 months ago #62041 by Bomb
Hi players!

Maybe this topic already exists, but I think not in this form.

I try to point out the problem using a concrete example:
yesterday there was a small night-cup. 10 players or so, 2 groups. Player A won the group-stage (which alone took 2 hours, but thats another prob ;) ),
and meets player B in first KO-round. Till to that point player A only had opponents from central/north-europe (poland/germany etc.) like himself - p2p-mode was no problem at all. Then he played vs. player B from, lets say, turkey or portugal (or america or what ever, a bit more far away) and lost, but not dued to his skillz, but to the delay in p2p-mode, which was not 2 anymore, but 4.
do I have to continue? ::)

If player A plays with 2 delays (around 30 or 40 ms) usually, and player B playes with 4 delay (90 or 100) usually, its a clear disadvantage for A, if both ko games are played in p2p mode which is only normal for B. At least one game then should take place on a server with normal conditions for player A. Or the first game takes place on a good server for player A, second on a good one for player B.

There are enough servers in europe to satisfy every player, I guess.
Ok, If I want to play vs some player from japan or america, there are probably no servers for both, so p2p is a must.
I don t know if results really can be taken for serious, where the conditions for one player are an advantage or normal, for the other one not.

I dont wanna blame anyone who comes from portugal, turkey, america - in contrary, its great, to have the possibility that I can play vs all of them.
in fact, players from far away can say the same about me or other players from central europe. but thats not our (swos-players) fault, its just a technical problem of the internet (still), which is corncerning all players .

I suggest to create some rules, which will make sure a bit more equality, if such rules are realistic and possible.
but before I would like to have some reactions of you other players... What do you think?



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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62042 by Bomb
I just think about it, because sometimes this situation causes mad reactions and struggle... ;)

like yesterday night
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12 years 6 months ago #62043 by Root
Yes i see your point and i agree to it...but sometimes there is no possibility to find better conditions...srn games should have something like this in rules (Schulle Eleven think about it)...i have also sometimes problems with delay when i m playing with portugese for example but i m playing match...it s more hard but in every game i was having playable conditions and i coulded fight with not small chances...so i think it s only player decision and that he can agree to this disadvantage as you call it...
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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62044 by LIK
I will write about my experience with P2P, comparing it with game on real amiga.

- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag

- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable

- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is still pretty good

- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here :), there is still some swos feeling in attack

- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game

About your proposition i think we can try it if for example we have more than 3 skips on p2p game.




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12 years 6 months ago #62045 by Coolio_Jack
IMO 3 frame skips is the limit where noone should dramatize to much, but 4 frames noone should be forced to play.
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12 years 6 months ago #62047 by Bomb
indeed, 3 delays should be no problem...
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12 years 6 months ago #62048 by Wänä81
For me is that simple, i wouldn´t play against any opponent if there is a delay from more than 80ms and 4 frames delay. 40ms for each player are ok and 4 frames are ok if there is no other possibility to play. If there is more...for example with the USA ;) i play 1 match on a server here and 1 match on server in USA. Thats better for me , because i can play SWOS in 1 match . The other is no SWOS , same as i would play both with P2P (100ms and 5 frames) :(
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12 years 6 months ago #62049 by _sox_

indeed, 3 delays should be no problem...

i think 3 delays is not really good stuff...ok, i can accept it when i play with a man from other side of the the word, but when i play against italians (like me) and delays = 3 i don t think that it is a very good game.
by the way, i agree with lik s tought with a little modify:

- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag

- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable

- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is harder too

- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here Smiley, and you can strike only because your opponent has not the premonition gift

- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game.tetris is better :-)
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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62050 by lemonheadiv
Hmm, interesting topic...but to go straight to the point, I don t think we need special rules for this.

If player A plays with 2 delays (around 30 or 40 ms) usually, and player B playes with 4 delay (90 or 100) usually, its a clear disadvantage for A, if both ko games are played in p2p mode which is only normal for B.


The 4 frames delay condition is not exactly normal for player B either. Assuming he s from Portugal for example, we will easily get a 2 or 3 frames delay against his compatriots like you do against people from central europe. So I wouldn t define it a normal condition.
And if player B were to play on a server he wouldn t get a good performance like he would on p2p. As far as I know people from Germany are the only ones getting around 15ms pings on servers...

Btw I also ran into similar problems. I know that if I play against people from Italy I will get 40 to 60 frames ( 2 frames delay ), whereas if I play against someone from Poland or Portugal I ll easily get 4 frames delay ( even 5 at times and that s really too much ).
By playing on server though I always get a worse performance than on p2p, even against people from my country...the game just isn t that smooth.

Obviously it s hard to get used to different delays, that s something we all have to coexist with ( except Ejder maybe :) ).
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12 years 6 months ago #62052 by mrsensible
we lived some problems without p2p mode in yesterday
its not good for us
coz i can play both them that defence and attack
its so important to me more fast game. i have technical style (etc distance shot) and if it can be delay more --- i can t do more well
i prefer to be 30 40 msn delay
For sometime Arena or other servers doesnt work for me and so i prefer p2p mode
i hate p2p mode but i learnt that i have to play for other serious tournament
FOR LIVED PEOPLE IN FAR DIStANCE
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