Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?

Well, if we play online ( and this topic is about that ) then it s normal to have lags and delay. Many of us never had the chance to experience that offline feeling that a 15ms ping on a server can give.
And, do you think it s easy to play for someone that has a 4 frames delay? Yes, he can get used to it but it will never be like playing offline nor like doing so wih 30ms of ping.
But then again since in online play there are lags, you have to deal with them...and that s a skill too.





I strongly disagree with that last statement: firstable, keep in mind that the game was designed to be played in lag-free conditions, thus the fact you ve never had first-hand experiences is completely irrelevant to the points in question. Once you start factoring in stuff that are clearly beyond the scope of the original concept the gameplay revoleves around you ve got to think about rules and restrictions to put in place in order to balance things out as well, otherwise you d end up giving up too much of the original game just to play online, making the whole ordeal rather pointless and partially falsifying the competition.

In second instance I likewise strongly believe that anything above 1~2 frameskip (let s say somewhere in between) and you re either playing Sensible World of Guessing or Sensible Moon of Soccer. Thanks but no thanks, the whole game-session simply becomes way too much depending on luck and randomness, nearly kicking out of the picture the skill-factor and effectively turning one of the most meritocratic multiplayer gaming experiences ever conceived into a scrub-oriented and mnemonic-driven cheapness-fest.

Tell you what...I think there s one big misunderstanding that should be pointed out before advancing with the discussion: the concept of smoothness itself has been mistakenly stretched quite a bit throughout the thread: lit up your Amiga and play a few matches on it (avoid LCD monitors or HDTV as well while you re at it, they generally bring forth their fair share of inherent delay as well...as a matter of fact I ve seen people carry their own 10 yrs. old CRT monitors to Street Fighter III ran-bats - btw you could easily test your TV with Rockband input delay detecting feature) then get back to your PC and play with an opponent who resides within your country borders (unless you live in China, Australia or something of the likes eh), you ll feel like someone has loaded your players with 10Kg. of extra pixels each.

Stop fooling yourselves, even with just 2~3 frameskips the game is FAR from being silk-smooth and if you re used to play offline a lot (much like the vast majority of oldschool players such as myself and Waenae) the lag/input delay ends up fuc.king up your timing badly to the point that 35 minutes into the game you just stand there helplessly, blabbing about how frustrating the whole experience has been instead of playing (or at least that s what happens to me haha). Sure you might suck it up for the sake of playing your favourite game of all time however that doesn t mean it ain t bull$hit. It s NOT right, no matter how you sweeten it.

Moreover, as others have mentioned above, once you ve overcome the 80~ ms threshold it just stops being even remotely worthwhile.

Don t get me wrong, I m not trying to belittle anyone or dwindle away anyone s accomplishments however it is definately not the game we ve always known, it s a somewhat edulcorated version (you may or may not dislike) with his own peculiar gameplay which on my book is just as different as say...the PC or mobile phone versions can be...but...that s not even the point, unfortunately.

The real issue here is that adding insult to injury the online played over long distances doesn t hold any friggin consistency either: depending on your opponent/online mode/connection/f***ton more variables the feel is pretty much ever-changing so whoever is quicker to adapt to the new circumstances (rather than who s more skilled) or whose playing-style fits better the aforementioned conditions prevails. And that s it. That s what people are complaining about. That s what ultimately throws people off and doesn t allow equity.

So yeah, Is it fair? I don t think so, not entirely at least: due to the moltitude of variables previously mentioned oftentimes the outcome of a match is literally up for anyone s guess even when skill-wise the gap between the players is nothing short of manifest (I could care less if both players are suffering the same lag and inputting delay, one of them will always be at an advantage simply because he might ve played more matches in a similar environment. It turns into a matter of experience, not skill, are you seriously telling me I ve got to start grinding outside of a MMO as well? Argh).

Could it be fun? Heck, sure it could, I ve had plenty of pretty entertaining matches even with 35~ FPS and even got a few good laffs out of it.

Does it resemble Sensible Soccer? Of course it does, just as much as the beloved XBLA remake, I guess.

Is it Sensible Soccer? Not quite, thus as die-hard haijinish oldschool fan it isn t worth my time (hence my scarce interest toward int l online competitions on .de).

Dunno about ya ll but I ll stick to italian adversaries (and even then if you re living far off to the south, kindly gtfo), GOTM-like competitions (my true passion!) and offline events til we get a prettier middleware or better internet infrastructures.

Special rules would definately help, though, I have to agree with Waenae here (I just couldn t suggest anything off the top of my head, this is a pretty complicated affair).

(...)

THIS.