Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?

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12 years 6 months ago #62055 by Kanu
This topic can be interesting to whom didn t read it:

forum.sensiblesoccer.info/index.php?topic=11086.15

I think we should try to request SWOS implementation on GGPO servers.

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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62056 by lemonheadiv

If there is more...for example with the USA ;) i play 1 match on a server here and 1 match on server in USA. Thats better for me , because i can play SWOS in 1 match . The other is no SWOS , same as i would play both with P2P (100ms and 5 frames) :(


In that case p2p would still be better. For exmaple I play with Ejder in p2p mode with no problems at all, the game is very smooth. Sure it s harder but you can t say it s not swos.
The server option is not realistic in my opinion. You would easily get 150ms on a USA server...that would be almost unplayable and it s not worth trying.
One thing that can help is playing a friendly match before the official ones. It helps you get comfortable with the difference in delay.
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12 years 6 months ago #62058 by Wänä81
I can play 50 friendlies , and i wouldn´t get comfortable with that delay .

I´m an offline-player ! Online is not my beloved thing, but i play it with ping and lags and delay.... !

Btw. i have a ping from around 100ms at Ejders server in New Jersey . For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !

If i play on server , i can play 1 SWOS-match at least. With p2p i have no SWOS-match
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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62060 by Bomb




One thing that can help is playing a friendly match before the official ones. It helps you get comfortable with the difference in delay.

[/quote]

good point, if there is no other possibility.. I often did it with daimaou, but not every player has the time or the motivation to do it.
most times it s like: quick, quick we have to hurry

hehe, could that be a rule? : if the delay is higher than 3, both players have to warm up 2 friendly games, if one of both want to.
:P
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12 years 6 months ago #62061 by Kanu

For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !

With p2p i have no SWOS-match


p2p give some advantages to players usually having high pings.

But I don t agree at all with you when you say that 100ms on server are better than p2p.

Online you ll never play with same performances you would have offline, of course, but p2p give at least more equity than server matches.
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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #62062 by lemonheadiv

I´m an offline-player ! Online is not my beloved thing, but i play it with ping and lags and delay.... !


Well, if we play online ( and this topic is about that ) then it s normal to have lags and delay. Many of us never had the chance to experience that offline feeling that a 15ms ping on a server can give.
And, do you think it s easy to play for someone that has a 4 frames delay? Yes, he can get used to it but it will never be like playing offline nor like doing so wih 30ms of ping.
But then again since in online play there are lags, you have to deal with them...and that s a skill too.
It s not like people in Portugal are happy to play with such a delay...am I wrong?

Btw. i have a ping from around 100ms at Ejders server in New Jersey . For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !


55ms each in p2p mode won t result in a 5 frames delay.
And 100ms on server is still worse than a huge 180ms with 5 frames delay on p2p...

If i play on server , i can play 1 SWOS-match at least. With p2p i have no SWOS-match


On server you would play two unfair matches ( one where you can t defend, one where he cannot ) that s all.
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12 years 6 months ago #62068 by lestat

Btw. i have a ping from around 100ms at Ejders server in New Jersey . For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !

If i play on server , i can play 1 SWOS-match at least. With p2p i have no SWOS-match


:-\
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12 years 6 months ago #62069 by Wänä81

For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !

With p2p i have no SWOS-match


p2p give some advantages to players usually having high pings.

But I don t agree at all with you when you say that 100ms on server are better than p2p.

Online you ll never play with same performances you would have offline, of course, but p2p give at least more equity than server matches.



You didn´t get my point ! Plaese read exactly...this is one content. I would never say 100ms are better than p2p , only in that case!


Btw. i have a ping from around 100ms at Ejders server in New Jersey . For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !

If i play on server , i can play 1 SWOS-match at least. With p2p i have no SWOS-match


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12 years 6 months ago #62070 by Wänä81

Btw. i have a ping from around 100ms at Ejders server in New Jersey . For me it´s the same as 5 frames delay and 55ms on p2p !


55ms each in p2p mode won t result in a 5 frames delay.
And 100ms on server is still worse than a huge 180ms with 5 frames delay on p2p...


I tried it with Ejder and it will be 5 frames !!! Believe me. For me it´s not playable

If i play on server , i can play 1 SWOS-match at least. With p2p i have no SWOS-match


On server you would play two unfair matches ( one where you can t defend, one where he cannot ) that s all.


Two unfair matches are fair for both , where is the problem ?

I´m an offline-player ! Online is not my beloved thing, but i play it with ping and lags and delay.... !


Well, if we play online ( and this topic is about that ) then it s normal to have lags and delay. Many of us never had the chance to experience that offline feeling that a 15ms ping on a server can give.
And, do you think it s easy to play for someone that has a 4 frames delay? Yes, he can get used to it but it will never be like playing offline nor like doing so wih 30ms of ping.
But then again since in online play there are lags, you have to deal with them...and that s a skill too.
It s not like people in Portugal are happy to play with such a delay...am I wrong?

[


I nerver said that the delay is easy for the portuguese players(only one example), but they play with a high ping since ages. They get more used to as the guys from central europe, that´s all
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12 years 6 months ago #62072 by daimaou
Another p2p vs server discussion, been a while :)

I agree with what Bomb states, but really this is exactly the same situation for everybody like lemon mentioned it. In fact I think lemon explained it perfectly.

I play vs portuguese players with 1 or 2 skips too. I play with 3/4 skips with everyone else depending on their country. Versus some even 5fps like Ejder sometimes or certain Polish players. Of course you notice the difference, but I adapt to it and I think anybody can as well. This can get more problematic in that specific case of 1 day cups where you have to play with 2 skips in one match and with 4 skips on the next one with no time to adapt so that can be tricky, I totally understand that.
Also just to give my example I probably play more games vs portuguese players than vs players from other countries, so unlike many say I m as used to high pings as most of the players here.... when someone tells me I won a match just because of the ping I hate it. Especially since when most of those players beat me on p2p they don t mention pings at all, they are just better.

When I play on server I m in huge disavantage as my pings on arena are around 90ms where versus most of german players I get 3 skips only on p2p for example. Also lets face it p2p is a really superior protocol than the kaillera one, there is usually no slowdown at all on p2p even with high pings (I can play smoothly vs someone in Brazil even though with extremely high pings) and almost no desyncs. Only advantage in Kaillera is the multiplayer support. I remember sometime ago I tried to play a FLOT with lobo and xflea on server and we got frustated with so many desyncs, it s something I rarely have to deal with on p2p and wasn t used to it anymore.

p2p is fair since conditions are the same for both, obviously as long as the game is still playable. I think we can play ok with 4 skips, not the best conditions sure, but after a bit I get used to the delay, you can t say it s not swos anymore. More than that is where I feel the game really starts getting random with lot of mistakes due to bad timings.

As far as servers, there are no good servers for swos rather than arena and swos.info afaik so all players closer to them will always have better pings there. For me this situation is simple if I m forced by rules on playing my games on server it will be the end of online swos competitions for me since I just can t play there. This is a hard subject and I think there would be no simple rules to deal with it.
Online gaming is completely different than offline and maybe in some years we can get really low latencies all over the world, but so far this is something that is present and I think p2p is the most fair method of dealing with it.

Versus me if anyone is not confortable with the pings I m always ok with playing a friendly before the match to help getting used to the delay. If we have more than 4 skips I m the first to ask if it wouldn t be better to play another time.
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